Replies
No one has replied to this post.
My sense is option 1 is how they'd prefer it. The learner is not technically out of funding as there is still the completion element to be paid, so the expectation is that if they go past their planned end date, you'd need to update it to account for how much longer you imagine they're going to be on programme. They talked about it during their recent webinar.
Interestingly though, they did also confirm that they were accepting of signature dates on the apprenticeship agreement being after the start date.. so maybe they'd also be accepting of you updating the agreement and only getting it signed at the end?
Interestingly, I just received a response to a query I logged about this when it first appeared, which sort of throws a spanner into my assumptions up to now:
I understand you are seeking clarity on whether the Apprenticeship Agreement should be updated in the event an apprentice is over their estimated learning planned end date.
If a learner is over their estimated planned end date in the ILR, no changes are necessary to any documentation unless a change of circumstances is involved (as per the Apprenticeship Funding Rules).
Providers would retain any evidence in the learners pack for any delays in completing the apprenticeship.
The apprenticeship agreement is a document used to confirm an individuals employment arrangements that have been agreed between the apprentice and the employer.
Only a copy is given to the training provider to retain for the learners evidence pack.
It is only in the cases of a break in learning (BIL) when an apprentice restarts the programme, that all documentation, including the apprenticeship agreement and training plan, must be reviewed and updated to account for the duration of the break in learning.
This can be actioned in either format:
- annotating the original document
- the employer and apprentice can sign a secondary page that can be stapled/attached to the original document showing they are aware of these changes
- or signing a new apprenticeship agreement with the revised dates
- the new agreement can be tailored to stipulate this is a secondary apprenticeship agreement that has been signed by the employer and apprentice to agree to the revised dates that have been calculated upon the apprentices return from a break in learning.
The training provider should retain a copy for the learner evidence pack and can attach any other supporting evidence on why the agreement has been annotated or a new one used to demonstrate there was a break in learning.
Hi Sophie Lampert this is what we received back from our contract manager
In terms of passed planned end date learners there needs to be evidence of a new end date being discussed/agreed with the learners. This does not have to be done through a new apprenticeship agreement however there does need to be some form of robust evidencing that the new date has been agreed.
Hi
This is in direct conflict from the ESFA webinar they carried out this year on the new funding rules where they stated a new apprenticeship agreement MUST be signed if the existing one goes out of date due to the learner going out of funding, this was further back up by their Q and A they sent out after the meeting, please see text below directly from the Q and A. This also brings into question if we should then obtain a new Training Plan and Employer Written Agreement as the due end dates will not match.
Permanently deleted user
Apprenticeship agreement
Created
Hi all, just wanting to know peoples thoughts on the new funding rules clarification that an apprenticeship agreement must cover the actual duration of the apprenticeship. Where learners return from a BIL we have always obtained new agreements but now it states the agreement must be for the actual duration so this will include learners who go out of funding.
I think we have 2 options:
1. Obtain a new agreement when a learner goes oof replanning new dates for practical period and apprenticeship end date. My concern with this is we will have lots to chase but also as the ILR is not being updated the new agreement dates data won't appear in our system so if they don't meet their original reforcasted date we have no way of tracking this.
2. Obtain an updated agreement at the point of completion. This would solve the above issue but not sure if this is acceptable if we get audited during their oof period we won't have an up to date agreement but could obtain one at that point.
Be keen to hear others thoughts on how they are going to tackle this, tia.