Transfer Main Provider AFTER Gateway

I'm pretty sure the answer is "no"? If there's no "official" learning because the learner is in Gateway then the new provider can't put them on the ILR... Suggest double checking with the Service Desk, but I think this is how it "works"...

Thanks Steve, I really did think that would be the case and clutching at straws to find any way to make it "work"!

What if a provider has gone bust, surely the ESFA wouldn't expect these learners to be left hung and dry? I have a similar query in with the SD so be interested to see if you get any update. 

Is there anything to stop us putting them on with 0 training cost, just the assessment cost and learning of a day?

I mean, I don't disagree that "we" (in the broadest sense) should be getting these people through EPA, problem is (as the system is currently set up), if they're in Gateway then [ahem] there can't possibly be any learning to do [double ahem], so where does the training provider come in?

ESFA need to work out how we're going to deal with them because the current rules basically ignore them...

The ESFA confirmed, as expected, that the learner needs to stay on the existing provider's ILR - there is no learning outstanding as they have already entered gateway and so cannot be transferred to another ILR.

Another example of asking the question twice and getting a different answer Emma Nusl as we also received a reply to the same question today telling us this can be done and that you just put them in the ILR with 1 day learning and then close down. 

We are currently in discussions with our account manager and the technical team so will post an update once concluded in the hope it saves others the pain we are having with them. 

Hi so final update on this and this was our response back from the technical desk via our account manager to confirm it can be done, they just don't like it so my advise would be to reach out to your contract manager first before doing so. 

While a learner can change training provider during the EPA preparation phase, it is usually discouraged where the learner is able to remain with the original provider. This is because learning does not always take place while the learner is preparing for EPA.

However, we are aware that learners do transfer providers at all points in the programme, so the ILR returns work in the apprentice's best interests. When a learner changes provider at gateway you can follow the guidance in the link below –
https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/22-23/psm/article/recording-breaks-in-learning-transfers-and-restarts#article-A%20learner%20transfers%20to%20a%20different%20provider

There should be a duration of at least one week between the start date and planned end date. The Planned hours returned on the new provider record can be 1 planned hour - this will allow the record to pass validation. The achievement date also must be at least 7 days after the actual end date to pass validation. If all on-programme payments have been made and only the completion element remains TNP1 can be £0.

It should be noted for audit purposes, that there should be interaction with the new provider (even if this is a review of work for EPA) which must be recorded in the apprentice's evidence file as learning towards the programme.   

Thanks Simon Liversedge

Our provider manager has now agreed to this approach for our transfers too, so it does seem the ESFA has the flexibility to support apprentices as long as you ask the right people the right questions! 

Glad you got it sorted Emma Nusl going forward we probably won't be doing this unless its from a provider that has gone bust as its been quite a job getting the right people to agree to the solution that was theirs to begin with. A lack of any published guidance really does not help in this situation. 

In a sense I kind of feel a bit sorry for them, one wouldn't build a system that has rules for dealing with this because one wouldn't expect it to happen, certainly not at the volumes we've seen over the last year... Having said that, it's been fairly obvious for the last six months, but that's the pace of Civil Service decision making...