Bootcamps v Apprenticeships

Um, where do the rules say it's OK? Doesn't 27.6 preclude it?

27. 
A provider must not claim funding for individuals who:

27.6. Are in receipt of any other direct/indirect DfE funding during their 
apprenticeship; this includes any other DfE funded FE / HE programme, 
including those funded by the Office for Students or a student loan

Hi Steve, I may have got this completely wrong then and it is the first instance where we have had it so wish me luck!

In the funding rules, it also states that the issue is where it replicates learning, conflicts with learning aims or takes place during working hours (i.e contravenes with 20%).

If it does none of the above, isn't that ok?

What's the Standard in and what's the Bootcamp? That's the only way I can answer the first two... Also, aren't employers meant to make a contribution for employed learners on a bootcamp?

I presume the Validation Rule you're knocking up against is the learner can't be on two programmes (ie ZPROGs) at once. It's a fairly consequential rule that stops a bunch of other silly things happening...

Hi there, original Electrical standard, Solar PV bootcamp. Employer has made a contribution, and you are completely correct about the ZProg! 

OK, so I've got some good news and some bad news...

Good news is I agree with you that this is fundable, the bootcamp isn't going to replicate or conflict with the apprenticeship.

Bad news is you're going to have to make the case, via the customer help desk, that the Validation Rule (and actually, probably *several* validation rules) needs changing (and probably a new PDSAT report needs writing because if the validation goes away people might make mistakes)...

Probably want to get on this pretty quickly because I suspect it will take a while...

Thank you so much! i really appreciate your time and advice.

Hello - I potentially may have the same issue.  Did you get any resolution with your query? Does the ILR have a wobble with 2 ZPROGS? 

Hi there, in short, nope! It is still sat with DfE, the last thing they asked from us was a summary of everything we have tried and done and to request manual payment, which we have done, but not had an outcome as yet. Sorry I couldn't be of more help!

I've had an update from the help desk and it is a hard no that it's not possible and is against the funding rules and as Steve alludes to above - para 27.6 states it. :( 

Good luck and let me know if you have any progress. 

We have just had the same although really frustrating as this in in direct conflict to the Bootcamp regulations. It also goes against app funding regs as none of this learning is included in the standard. Yet another grey area in the funding rules then designed to make it difficult for Training Providers!

I think, per Sarah's actually very good example, it *can* be fundable, it's *not* categorically against the rules, but the main problem we've got at the moment is the ILR isn't built to allow two concurrent programme aims.

Oh, just seen Sarah's response :(((

They need to be EXPLICIT in the rules that learners Just Can't do an app and a bootcamp at the same time then (and there needs to be a better reason than "it will be hard to make the ILR work"...)

we had confirmation from our funder that it wasn't possible after initally saying it was.  I agree Steve, I think paperwork says yes and computer says no