DateOfBirth_47 Actual duration does not meet the minimum

Looking at the ILR_Validation_Rules it looks like it used to check for < 372 days, and now < 365:

(error where LearningDelivery.LearnStartDate - LearningDelivery.LearnActEndDate < 365 days)

If it's just subtracting those two dates it will come up with a value of 364 days for the information you posted above, as it's not including the actual end date in the calculation:

"

From and including: Tuesday, 28 May 2024
To, but not including Tuesday, 27 May 2025

Result: 364 days

It is 364 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date.

Or 11 months, 29 days excluding the end date."

Hi Gill

We deliver Team Leader too, our first cohort are about to sit their EPAs in November. Sorry a bit off topic from your question, but do you have any insights or advice I could share with the learners about what to expect? We are struggling to guide them without having experienced it ourselves yet either.

That is the annoying thing as the calculator suggests these dates give a duration of 365 days 

Hi Gill, I would talk to the Helpdesk about all the above and see what they say then!

Thanks Richard.

I did submit a query yesterday and was told to amend the end dates. I can see that would resolve the issue but wanted to understand why it had occurred and if anyone else was experiencing it too. The calculation on the calculator is D = (C11-C10) + 1 i.e. Learning planned end date - Learning start date + 1 day

It's the +1 there in the calculator that is making the different compared to the ILR Validation Rule Logic.

Hi Courtney

My understanding is the details of the EPA the team leaders will sit are on the Skills England web site (https://skillsengland.education.gov.uk/apprenticeships/st0384-v1-4) and your EPAO should be able to give guidance on what they will expect to see.

And consistency is key. You cannot add it one thing and take it away in another !!

Surely a year is a year, and we can all see from the dates that this is a year, the answer must be 365 or 366 when covering the 29th Feb in a leap year, therefore the plus 1 should be included. I'm sure that the auditors will argue that there must be evidence of training on the start date, and evidence of training on the end date, and so both ends must be counted.

Honestly, this looks like a subtraction to me and thus a negative answer, which would be less than 365

(error where LearningDelivery.LearnStartDate - LearningDelivery.LearnActEndDate < 365 days)

I posted the query to the DfE and got this response

The DfE off the job training calculator and the ILR use slightly different logic when calculating apprenticeship duration.

The calculator includes both the start and end dates, which can result in a longer duration being displayed. The ILR, however, excludes the end date when validating the minimum required duration for funding purposes.

This means that while the calculator may show 365 days, the ILR sees it as 364 which does not meet the 12 month requirement.

I agree Martin that an auditor would need evidence for learning on both day 1 and the last day. Lets hope it is on someone's list to make the logic consistent.