Permanently deleted user

Want to Re-Start but not enough funding available

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So I have an organisation we are talking to who have 3 learners who were 8 plus months through their 12 month Apprenticeship when the Main Provider pulled out and left the organisation in limbo. We were azpproached via a contact and have been keen to support the learners and do a re-start to get these learners through to GW and EPA. The DAS account info shows that 10 months funding was drawndown but 2 months were repaid to the organisation, so a net 8 out of 12 months. However no EPA was organised or paid for during that time and the 4 months of funding left equates to approx £1,154 per learner with EPA costs at £1,300. Even with a 20% achievemnt payment (which is a risk anyway) we would not be able to do this. Surely this cannot be right? Any thoughts on this........ I have thought that maybe the original Main Provider who is still operating wshould pay 2/3 of the EPA cost?

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Steve Hewitt

It's how the system works, clearly this is a slightly different conversation to it being "right"...

Marginally confused what the initial TNP/band max is though? I can't get to a nice round number from £1154 for four months?

But, yes, taking on learners from another provider is a very big risk (and probable money loser). Would generally only advise it if you reckon you'll end up with an on-going relationship with the employer...

Permanently deleted user

Thanks Steve; yes being 'right' isn't the issue really but maybe there should be some guidance/rule regards EPA costs and funding drawdown. I averaged the 3 learners monthly funding as they were all different (assume some RPL involved with 2 of them) Max funding band at the time I think was £8k now £7k. Actually the employer has said that they would cover the costs of EPA for these 3 learners just to get them through and to allow us to at least cover our costs in completing the remaining learning and admin of GW & EPA; but I just wanted to check I wasnt missing something here. Once again very helpful thankyou.

Steve Hewitt

Ooh, you might want to be a bit careful there.

There's an audit test that looks for the payment going from *provider* to EPAO although, when I look at the specific paras of the Rules, I cannot see one that says the provider MUST pay, eg:

P181 It is the responsibility of the employer to select the end-point assessment
organisation and negotiate the price within the funding band for assessment. You
must contract with the end-point assessment organisation that has been selected by
the employer and lead the relationship with them including where you subcontract
the delivery of apprenticeship training. This allows you, on behalf of the employer, to
make payment to them for conducting the end-point assessment.

but also:

P228 Employers and main providers must negotiate a price for the total cost of each
apprenticeship, including the training costs and any subcontracted training. The
price must also include the cost of the end-point assessment which the employer
must negotiate with the end-point assessment organisation.

So, um, just be careful...

Martin West

I agree with Steveh.

You negotiate a price with the employer to complete the training then add the EPA costs to get the total price, the employer is responsible for the balance if this takes the total over the CAP, that is the way it works not what is left up to the CAP.  The employer either agrees or you lower your training costs and take the hit, or you decide not to proceed, it is down to you.

Permanently deleted user

Ok thanks both for the heads up; so if I do 're-starts' for these 3 learners  then my TNP's will be the training still to be covered, plus the EPA costs whihc the employer and I already know will be £1,300. Now this PLUS the fundiong already drawn down by the previous Main Provoder will take it way over the max funding band; so the employer will have to pay the balance which will be documented accordingly......is that correct?