HRS and RIP

Hi, we use Bud and it has automatically added the planned OTJ hours into the new fields for pre-August starts and now I have an R162 error in R01 - I want to know if these new fields are only for new starts from 1st August.  So will follow this :)

Carrie Rogers - I believe that HRS and RIPs need to be applied to all learner records now, not just 26/27 new starters, but it's not made explicitly clear in the guidance. We've certainly carried out a piece of work to enter all of this data into our SRS so it can be pulled for the return. What then isn't clear is whether this HRS record and any possible associated RIP1 record needs to be present on every ZPROG001 engagement, or just the first one. We have to build our ILR using tools outside of our SRS, so if anyone can clarify about how this is coming out of their software, it would be appreciated!

Christine Gregory - From what I've found, the R162 error indicates that there is a RIP1 record on the ZPROG001 wrapper, indicating a reduction in price due to APL, but there isn't a HRS record of Type 4 that corresponds to this on the same entity. This is where it isn't clear about where the RIP1 and HRS records need to be recorded

• Should a RIP1 and HRS4 be on every ZPROG001, or just on the first one?
• Does a HRS1 record need to be on every ZPROG001 or just on the first one?

If anyone knows for definite, please let me know!

Hi Chris Baker I'm thinking that maybe they shouldn't be added to pre26/27 records.

We had a pageful of R161 errors - where the reduced cost was not in the R01 ILR due to it not being recorded in 25/26 (as it wasnt even a field then) - I've worked through them and corrected all the errors and now every one of them are an error in R13 with an AFinType_02 error!

The only way to clear these errors - is to leave the HRS1 coded as the figure that was previously the Planned Hours number - but do NOT include a HRS4 because then it doesnt expect a RIP.   But I'm not confident of correcting all the learners this way as there is no clear steer yet.

I had the following response from the DFE:

Have you successfully included RIP records in an R13 ILR?  I have 70+ learners who all have the AFinType_02 error which is that RIP is not a valid entry?

So confusing!

Our system is set up so that when we run an ILR file for 25/26 it won't pick up these fields, only when we run it for 26/27 - what system are you using?

Hi Carrie Rogers, from what you've described here, the issue is that your R01 file is following the 26-27 ILR Schema so it includes RIP and HRS entities, but your R13 file is also following the 26-27 ILR schema. You shouldn't be including RIP and HRS entities in R13 and R14 for the 25-26 academic year, they should only be used for 26-27 ILR returns going forward. When you do include them for R01, this needs to be applied to all learners based on the email Christine Gregory has received from the DfE.

I hope that clears things up for you a little bit at least.

Hi, I've found that I needed to do 2 submissions, one for R01 (start dates on or after 01.08.26) and then a R13 (start dates prior to 01.08.26).  Zero errors on both :)

Using Aptem

Can I just check I'm recording the hours fields correctly - so for HRS1 this is the planned OTJ hours for the apprentice & HRS4 is how many hours this has been reduced by?  Eg for the programme we have 348 planned hours, but the apprentice needs to complete 200 due to RPL, so I've added 200 in HRS1 & 148 in HRS4 as this is the amount it's been reduced by?  Why they have to change things I don't know.  Thanks

Hi Christine Gregory, I can confirm, you are recording the hours fields correctly.

Chris East thank you for the clarification - maybes just me, but I think the wording is a little confusing.