Further education (FE) workforce data collection

Hi Peter

I note the fifth document down on the page linked to is titled 21/22 but is a 20/21 file.

Also, as a provider that is part of a larger organisation, I'm confused about how I deal with HR/IT/Marketing etc where they are cross-organisation functions without defined members of staff who work purely for our education arm?

Also also, I can't find any mention of subcontractors, can you confirm they're not in scope?

Thanks Peter, I think that's clear.

Bit worried that, in the overall state of things, this will skew some of the stats quite significantly, that providers like ourselves will look a lot more "profitable"/have a lower %age of staff costs to ESFA income (which must be a key metric coming out of this, right?) than, eg, a college including "everyone", particularly given there's nowhere I can see for us to tell you that we're part of a larger organisation?

I don't think 6.6 is explicit enough about subcontractors, I'd quite like a line that *says* subbies are not to be included.

Hi Peter,

Peter

Will the ESFA Workforce Desktop Application & Template be updated the reflect the recent changes to the Specification?

Thanks

Hi, was SteveH's query ever answered please regarding sub-contractors?   I don't think 6.6 is explicit enough about subcontractors, I'd quite like a line that *says* subbies are not to be included.

We are well on our way with our data return for our own staff, would hate to be told at this late stage that we somehow have to collect the data for our sub-contractors for AEB too?

Hi all 

I have a question on what staff are in scope for the FE workforce data collection. We are a small training provider and generally all our staff support our learners education and training but do not directly teach. When completing the application, we have completed the job role column and also the sub role column but it errors on "main subject taught". 

Has anyone else come across this? It makes me think we should only include the main teachers on the application but for instance our Programme Managers dont directly teach but do support. Also our administrators, they support our education department but do not teach. 

Any help appreciated

What are others doing where we can't get the data from staff? Is it acceptable to return the data that we have?

There's "not known" for pretty much every answer if you're desperate...

Are providers including Exam Invigilators in their return? 

Yes? Can use the Exam Admin category for them.

Thank you Steve, that's what we are currently doing - just mindful it wildly skews things as it looks like we have LOTS of Exams Admin !

Quick question- the question of annual salary. A member of the teaching staff holds a management position, do we submit their basic teacher salary only or do we include the TLR or responsibility allowance in that?

Hey, quick question; our college supports residential learners and thus we end up with a strange situation when using the sub-roles prefacing all of the Care Support Workers as Learning Support Assistants (SEN). 

We've done this because the Care Support Workers join learners in class (those that are funded through ESFA.) My concern is that this may be incorrect and look like we staff twice as many LSAs as we should but I cannot find an appropriate role that fits this niche within our organisation. Would the general guidance be to make it fit and make notes if we were asked to justify the amount of support assistants?

Looking at Peter's reply 

Victoria Connors-Lord You should include all staff members that support ESFA funded learners whether they teach or not. If you have a small number of staff you may find it easier to use the online form rather than the desktop application to complete your staff collection. Note if using the desktop application all the columns left to right from Main Subject Taught to Current Industry Experience must only be populated for teaching staff. If you populate any of these teaching staff columns for a member of staff without a teaching sub role selected then you will generate errors on the row. 

How does this tie in with the record specification for the xml output. Main Subject Taught is specified as mandatory 

I should add we are generating the xml output from our own payroll software

Hi David

You only include the TeacherData entity for staff whose main role is Teacher, so it's mandatory as part of that entity but only for those that you have to return it for, if you see what I mean? So anyone who is a Manager, Support, Admin etc wouldn't have the entity as part of their record.

Thanks Steven.  That's really appreciated. I think the penny was beginning to drop with me

So it only applies to those with a Teaching Role?

Should point out it took me about a week to realise it was deriving main from sub and that's why main and sub 1 have to be the same value  for everyone in the spreadsheet. Feels like it would genuinely be easier to put 1 to 5 in the main field... Not least because I would have realised earlier that Assessors aren't, for some reason "teachers"...

I have a question for several colleges I'm working with, related to grouping of invigilators 

• I haven’t excluded invigilators as I feel they support learning, but I cant group their job role into the provided categories, and there is no ‘other option’, do you have any suggestions for this? 

We just put them as 53 Exam Admin...

Hi have a query concerning data missing from either ex employees or those on LTS/maternity leave that we are unable to gather information from.  - if they full with in the teacher role, what alternative option can be chosen if the college is unable to obtain the information  - remaining validation errors refer to the above issue 

Just noticed a small inconsistency in the record spec against the schema. Looks like a typo.

Presumably, the schema is correct