22/23 Change of employer >30 days

Pretty much, yes;

P316 to P318 - New rule: To reflect that where there is a break in employment of more than 30 days and up to 12 weeks, the main provider must, after 30 days, record the apprentice as on a break in learning. Where the apprentice does not re-start with a new employer after 12 weeks, the main provider must withdraw the apprentice from the programme.

This does kind of fly in the face of the previous convention where if a learner changed employer whilst on a break, you would have been advised to change the original completion status to fully withdrawn, and restart the apprentice with the new employer on a new POT. However, the indication is that this is now not the case, and that a learner can (and must, in this case) change employer 'whilst on a break'

As this rule P316 to P318 - New rule is not included in the exceptions below does it apply to those who started prior to 22/23?

P13 These rules will apply to all apprenticeship programmes starting on or after 1 August 2022, with the following exceptions:

P13.1 The redundancy rules (detailed in paragraphs P274 to P275). These rules will apply irrespective of the apprentice’s start date and will include existing learners who started their apprenticeship programme in previous funding years.

P13.2 The rules on changing to a new version of a standard (detailed in paragraphs P285 to P298), which describe the rules for when an existing apprentice wishes to move to a new version of the same standard. These rules will apply irrespective of the apprentice’s start date and will include existing learners who started their apprenticeship programme in previous funding years.

P13.3 The rules on English and maths (detailed in paragraphs P134.1 and P138.1). These rules will apply irrespective of the apprentice’s start date and will include existing learners who started their apprenticeship programme in previous funding years.

P16 Any apprenticeship which started before 1 August 2022 will continue to follow the rules in force at that time. These can be accessed on GOV.UK.

A fair question. I guess if you go by the letter of the law, then no? I would be interested to get the agency's perspective on it. I'd also like clarification on how you'd record the TNP following this. When returning from a BIL you normally record TNP1 and TNP2 again, with the original prices.. but when changing an employer you record TNP3 and TNP4. Logic would dictate it's TNP3/4 because the price would have been revised for the new employer, but I wonder whether this will reconcile with the return from BIL rules. 

It would normally be TNP ½ unless you have revised the price.

From the Technical guide

 The apprentice takes a break in learning

250. When the apprentice resumes learning, we expect you to enter a price against the new programme aim in the ILR. This price may be the same as you previously recorded for the programme but can be a revised price depending on the amount of learning now required. After applying the funding band maximum, we will subtract 20% of this price for completion and, if the price is not a residual price, we will subtract any earnings to date. We will spread the remainder equally over the remaining planned duration.

From the PSM

Apprentice takes an agreed break in learning

If the apprentice is taking an agreed break in learning and intends to return, for example for economic reasons, long term sickness, maternity leave or religious trips, then the programme and component aims must be closed. Refer to guidance for recording an agreed break in learning.

The Date applies to for the latest Apprenticeship contract type FAM records (on the programme aim and any English or maths aims) must be set to the Learning actual end date of the aim.

Record any repayments of employer co-investment, if applicable, using AFinType = PMR and AFinCode = 3.

You must not record a break in learning unless the employer and apprentice have agreed this, the apprentice is intending to return to learning at a later point, and you have evidence supporting this.

When the apprentice returns, a new programme aim and new component learning aim(s) are recorded. Refer to guidance below for recording new aims when an apprentice returns from an agreed break in learning. The original learning aims on the ILR must not be reopened.

Record the price details as required using AFinType = TNP and the applicable codes. The price recorded on the new programme aim should be the same as the price prior to the break in learning unless you and the employer have negotiated a new price for the programme.

You must continue to return all aims and financial records for the apprenticeship, including the records prior to the break in learning, until the apprenticeship is completed or the apprentice withdraws from the programme.

If an apprentice does not return from an agreed break in learning, then the learning aims must be updated to indicate that the apprentice has withdrawn. Refer to guidance for recording learner absence or withdrawal.

HTH

I wonder if that's why the process hadn't registered in my brain yet as it applied only to new starts, I think I will seek clarification from the ESFA just to be sure.

Version 2 of the funding rules (published today) have clarified this;

P13.5 - New rule: To reflect that the rules on apprentices changing employers with a gap of employment of more than 30 days and up to 12 weeks (detailed in paragraphs P318 to P320), will apply irrespective of the apprentice’s start date and will include existing learners who started their apprenticeship programme in previous funding years.

Hi all, I'm a little confused - do we support the apprentice for 30 prior to the break in learning or should the last day of learning be the date they left the employer as long as they have learning that day?

Thanks

P264 An apprentice must be employed continuously for the duration of the apprenticeship. If their employment is terminated, the individual cannot continue with their off-the-job training (with the exception of redundancy).

P264.1 When employment or an apprenticeship agreement has ended (resignation, dismissal or any other action by the apprentice or the employer that results in the apprenticeship agreement ending, with the exception of redundancy) and new employment has commenced within 30 days we do not expect a withdrawal to be recorded.

P264.2 When employment or an apprenticeship agreement has ended (resignation, dismissal or any other action by the apprentice or the employer that results in the apprenticeship agreement ending, with the exception of redundancy) and new employment hasn’t commenced within 30 days, you must, after 30 days, record the apprentice as on a break in learning (see paragraphs P318 to P320). Where the apprentice does not re-start with a new employer after 12 weeks, you must withdraw the apprentice from the programme to ensure funds are not paid when the apprentice is not employed, in line with rules P318 to P320.

The intention of these rules is to suspend payment to the provider but as you will note the individual cannot continue with their off-the-job training during any period of not being employed under an Apprenticeship agreement.

Where new employment hasn’t commenced within 30 days the break in learning would start from the date they had left employment or the last day in learning prior to this.

HTH

What if new employment started within 30 days but the learning activity with the new employer didn't start for a further week for example?

the 30 days count up to the point they re-start with a new employer and if this is over 30 days you put them on a BIL to suspend funding,

By re-start do you mean re-start their learning rather than employer which are two very different things. The funding rules describe the 30 days as a gap in employment not a gap in OTJ

Restarting their Apprenticeship training with the new employer under an apprenticeship agreement if this is over 30 days you will be claiming funding for a period you are not entitled too, the reason a BIL is required,

HTH