Eamon Wilson
Last activity
Member since
Votes
3
Subscriptions
2
Replies
Eamon Wilson commented,
What's the percentage before the red flag gets raised? Having a 'fail' is what it is - if they don't take again we withdraw, which Im sure will raise the percentage on 'withdrawals' too although they've completed on programme and attempted? Funny old 'game' all this......
What's the percentage before the red flag gets raised? Having a 'fail' is what it is - if they don't take again we withdraw, which Im sure will raise the percentage on 'withdrawals' too although t...
Eamon Wilson commented,
Hi Ruth, Steve. Thanks for the replies. I went to the Help desk again to clarifi the response FYI. This is my question: This is how im following: Where a learner ‘fails’ in 2024-2025 year end but is retaking we should record: Completion Status = 2 (Learning complete) Outcome = 3 (No achievement) Learning Actual End Date = EPA Gateway date Then, in year 2025-2026 year return, whether that be RO 1,2,3,4 etc, we should then record as: Outcome to 1 (Achieved) Achievement Date = the date of the successful retake. Can you confirm this is correct please? Im conscious of the hard close of R14 coming up soon and then not being able to change the Outcome and Achievement date in 2025 – 2026 returns because its ‘closed’. And here is the response: I read through both my response and yours and we are on the same page. Old Academic Year R12, R13 etc Completion Status = 2 (Learning complete); Outcome = 3 (No achievement); Learning Actual End Date = EPA Gateway date New Academic Year R01, R02 etc Outcome to 1 (Achieved) Achievement Date = the date of the successful retake. I used the word pass instead of achieved which may have caused the confusion. So i believe this confirms that it does carry forward to the new ILR generated. Eamon
Hi Ruth, Steve. Thanks for the replies. I went to the Help desk again to clarifi the response FYI. This is my question: This is how im following: Where a learner ‘fails’ in 2024-2025 year end but ...
Eamon Wilson commented,
Morning Ruth, Thanks. That's the questions that need answering really. Doe's anyone else know please?
Morning Ruth, Thanks. That's the questions that need answering really. Doe's anyone else know please?
Eamon Wilson commented,
Hi Ruth, Thanks again for sharing your knowledge / thoughts. Losing the completion element seems really unfair. Im surprised they don't look at the systems to help providers with these issues. I understand why providers would record the 'fail' with the high numbers going though and cost implications associated. As said, with the amount that some must be going through the cost must be immense, so clawing that back is really important. I would have expected a change to EPA data to be open to no matter what the year on ILR. I did ask Helpdesk and this is what they said: This is what you need to record for each learner who is going to retake their EPA Completion Status = 2 (Learning complete) Outcome = 3 (No achievement) Learning Actual End Date = EPA Gateway date You should not use Completion Status = 1 (learner is continuing or intending to continue ……) as they have completed - albeit failed the first attempt of the EPA. Once they (hopefully) pass you then set Outcome to 1 (Achieved) Achievement Date = the date of the successful retake. So my thoughts on this are, we do record the attempt regardless. The retake is the responsibility of the employer and Apprentice. The EPAO has to make a return to the DFE to confirm the apprentice has failed first attempt and pass 2nd attempt right? so, if this is the case this would be matched via the ULN's so it would be irrelevant as long as the data is updated on the ILR for return the month of Outcome 1 'achieved'?? Thoughts? Eamon
Hi Ruth, Thanks again for sharing your knowledge / thoughts. Losing the completion element seems really unfair. Im surprised they don't look at the systems to help providers with these issues. I u...
Eamon Wilson commented,
Hi Ruth, You're amazing, thanks spending time with this. Really appreciated. We're very happy with the 25/26 rules! Luckily numbers are low, I really feel for larger mainstream colleges. It must be an absolute nightmare. We've been audited already and learnt so much just from that and we've been striving ever since to get even better. What's your thoughts on the OTJ's in terms of auditing. We run 4 year programmes, being industry experts we know the 1st year of the apprenticeship in our sector is really about learning from others onsite, with minimal On the Job. these hours reduce in year 2 and further more in year 3 as they progress. When it comes to year 4 this again ramps right up as this is the part of the qualification within the standard they need to pass to be able to register with a legal body to carry out works after. So, for our OTJ for the course could be 1144 for instance on ILR, but the true OTJ could be double that, if we inputted this data it would flag as red and create 'issues', so we are spending considerable time auditing the forms submitted along with register totals. This is really heavy on time allocated, are we again approaching this wrong? When we did get audited the chap said it was subjective on the data supplied by the apprentice and checked by the tutor, but as he went through the forms he started to decline hours submitted! Hence the reason we now go through everything again to ensure we have the agreed amount. So what I'm kind of asking is do we input the agreed ILR OTJs agreed and stop counting after once we are satisfied they have been met, but there could be 300hrs extra that we haven't allocated over the 1144?? Thanks again. Eamon
Hi Ruth, You're amazing, thanks spending time with this. Really appreciated. We're very happy with the 25/26 rules! Luckily numbers are low, I really feel for larger mainstream colleges. It must be...
Eamon Wilson commented,
Morning Ruth, Thanks as well for the reply. Although the planned, lets say was 31/07/2024 but the actual end was 04/04/2025 (not EPA) then those weeks after the planned do not need to be calculated right as long as the original OTJ agreed has been hit? Another and probably a silly question, if a learner completes a month or two earlier before the planned end date, are we required to confirm this and get the agreement with employer or is this an acceptable slippage? Everything that's done seems to have some sort of form to get signed etc, I'm trying to work as streamlined as possible but strictly within the rules. We need to work smarter as we are getting forms signed for every scenario you can imagine which naturally takes up a lot of resources. Many thanks in advance with all your help. Eamon
Morning Ruth, Thanks as well for the reply. Although the planned, lets say was 31/07/2024 but the actual end was 04/04/2025 (not EPA) then those weeks after the planned do not need to be calculated...
Eamon Wilson commented,
Hi Chloe, Thanks for the reply. But, when we've changed the end date as required to meet the rules doesn't that then generate the additional hours for the weeks gone over?
Hi Chloe, Thanks for the reply. But, when we've changed the end date as required to meet the rules doesn't that then generate the additional hours for the weeks gone over?