Jerry West
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Jerry West commented,
Just to muddy the waters further, the latest Apprenticeship funding rules say: P180 You must only use delivery subcontractors that satisfy one of the following two criteria: P180.1 they are on the published Register of Apprenticeship Training Providers and have applied by the main or supporting application routes; or P180.2 they are either the apprentice’s employer, a connected company or charity as defined by HMRC and are on the published Register of Apprenticeship Training Providers, having applied through the employer-provider application route. It is unlikely that associates (via PSC) will be separately registered on RoATP; so if Martin's reference (that because a PSC is a separate legal entity they are therefore subcontractors) is definitive, this may imply that the use of PSCs is effectively forbidden under the rules... PS don't forget that IR35 now applies to all sectors... you are responsible for determining (and justifying to HMRC) the tax status of your contract staff unless you are a small company yourself (turnover < £10.2m, balance sheet < £5.1m, < 50 employees, pick 2 out of 3). Cheers, Jerry
Just to muddy the waters further, the latest Apprenticeship funding rules say: P180 You must only use delivery subcontractors that satisfy one of the following two criteria: P180.1 they are on the...
Jerry West commented,
I know this is not timely, but I'm interested as we had a similar situation. The paragraph numbers quoted assume the apprentice started in 2023/24 but the principles were established before then and continue into 2024/25. 21.7. [The apprenticeship will be funded provided the apprentice] Spends at least 50% of their working hours in England over the duration of the apprenticeship. [emphasis mine] Welsh companies are incorporated under the same basis as English ones so theoretically should be able to get a DAS account. They could easily employ apprentices based in England so I see no reason for an arbitrary ban on English ITPs. Yes, the Welsh apprenticeship scheme is different (a devolved matter) but you're not asking for it to be funded as a Welsh apprenticeship. Even if that doesn't work out: Apprentices who have their apprenticeship agreement terminated by reason of redundancy who, on the day of dismissal, are within six months of the final day of the apprenticeship practical period OR they have completed at least 75% of the apprenticeship practical period specified in the apprenticeship agreement [emphasis mine]: 235. ... may continue their apprenticeship training without being employed under an apprenticeship agreement (see paragraph 62). In these circumstances the provider can continue to deliver the apprenticeship training so long as all the remaining elements, including the end-point assessment, can still be successfully delivered. [emphasis mine] So even though a Welsh company employing someone 100% in Wales cannot enter into a legitimate English apprentice agreement, none is needed. What happened in your case? Jerry
I know this is not timely, but I'm interested as we had a similar situation. The paragraph numbers quoted assume the apprentice started in 2023/24 but the principles were established before then a...
Jerry West commented,
You have correctly identified the relevant paragraphs. P270 covers the extra support (i.e. waiving the employer contribution under P127) and P271 includes employers who use a transfer of levy funds. Comments in this thread: https://esfahelp.education.gov.uk/hc/en-gb/community/posts/4403492894994-Subsidy-Control suggest that subsidies are only a concern where they affect international trade. YMMV. In our experience, it's not usually a big deal. If the empoyer looks at you blankly, the chances are they are not currently in receipt of subsidies and this won't push them over the limit - £275,000 over three years. A simple letter/declaration acknowledging this will suffice (search Subsidy Control Declaration - several local authorities have posted their documentation which could act as a good start point). The form from the Greater South-East Net Zero Hub has a useful list of what might count as a subsidy to help baffled employers. If they do know what you're talking about (you may have to go to the finance department, though) then they can do the math for themselves once they understand the rules concerning apprenticeships. If they're over the limit then you cannot apply the exemption/levy transfer. Jerry
You have correctly identified the relevant paragraphs. P270 covers the extra support (i.e. waiving the employer contribution under P127) and P271 includes employers who use a transfer of levy funds...