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Yes, this is the question! Subject of much doctrinal discussion over the last eighteen months. Here is my opinion:
If your delivery model doesn't separate out the specific thing they're already competent in, then there will not be any hours to reduce because they'll still have to attend all of the things. In which case you don't have to reduce the funding.
My cliched example at this point is Teamwork. If someone is already competent in teamwork, it is unlikely you would have anything to reduce because we don't have separate teamwork sessions, we teach teamwork whilst also teaching Skills and Knowledge.
Now, other people would disagree with me, which is why we see apps with twenty quid off here and fifty quid off there (and, again, that could be valid depending on your delivery model!) but I'm confident my methodology is in both the spirit and the letter of the rules as written.
You don't have to reduce OTJ. You should reduce price, but you only need to reduce duration (and therefore OTJ) if it's suitable. Just put your reasoning in the Training Plan.
29.1.2 If the provider cannot reduce the duration, they must still
meet the minimum requirements of the off-the-job training
policy for the full duration of the apprenticeship that has been
reported to us in the ILR
For example, where some of the delivery is classroom based, and that lasts a specific length of time, the content being missed might be in the middle. You can't change that plan for a whole class, so the duration has to be at least as long as the classroom based delivery plan.
Thanks Steve, very interesting. We are in the £20 here and there gang - we reduce the price, but not the learning.
However - my colleague is just trying to upload a new cohort to the DAS with the new info requirements relating to RPLE. It won't let my colleague enter "0" for OTJ reduction - why is this? should we just put 1 hour in to satisfy the system - even though no reduction in learning hours has been given?
Sorry Ruth Canham-James, why would you reduce price if you're not reducing hours?
29. Where relevant prior learning and experience is identified, the provider must
summarise the impact, including whether, and by how much, the apprenticeship
content and duration has been reduced.
29.1. Where content is to be omitted from the training plan, this must be shown
as a volume of off-the-job training hours.
If the hours are the same because they can't not be there, where the reduction coming from?
Steve Hewitt Because if we're not reducing the duration, we physically can't reduce the minimum OTJ hours. It still has to be 6 hours a week for a full timer. If our usual OTJ for that Standard was more than 6 hours a week then yes, we could reduce. If our normal OTJ for that Standard was only 6 hours a week (or close to), we can't go below minimum.
EDIT
If the hours are the same because they can't not be there, where the reduction coming from?
That is a good question! We are still expected to reduce the price because we didn't need to deliver it, and we might not deliver that particular part, but we're forced to replace that OTJ with some other OTJ to meet the minimum 6 hours a week.
They did thankfully update the upload spec to account for the new RPL functionality
We also generally reduce the price in some way, if the learner’s INA/Skills Scan identifies they don’t need a particular element (e.g., a set of KSBs), despite the fact that in most cases we invariably have to deliver the entire quantum of hours because of the delivery model of degree programmes. This is mostly out of an abundance of caution, and based on the fact that at various ESFA/DfE webinars/events it’s been stressed that almost more than anything, they dislike paying for things that learners don’t ’need’.
I do think that this approach is slightly interpretative, as strictly speaking content is NOT being omitted from the plan, suggesting 29.1 onwards does not really apply..
Hi,
Just an update following my last post above about leaving the OTJ reduction box blank working - it doesn't!
It allowed us to submit the DAS cohort with the blanks, however a couple of days later the DAS cohort was returned to us.
My colleague has just resubmitted one of the DAS Cohorts putting 1 into the OTJ discount box and this seems to have been accepted and approved. However - this is now incorrect on the DAS because we are not actually reducing the hours by anything.
Advice appreciated
Permanently deleted user
OTJ and RPLE
Created
If a learner has RPLE identified (only a small amount) and it is not practical to reduce the programme content to remove the related learning, then do we still need to reduce the total OTJ hours for that learner? Or do they need to complete the same number of OTJ hours as people without RPLE because they are attending a programme of the same time duration?
Thanks