OTJ past planned end date

Use the original planned end date to calculate the minimum OTJ. If they have met the minimum for the time they were originally planned to be on programme then they will be ok.

Hi Chloe,

Thanks for the reply. But, when we've changed the end date as required to meet the rules doesn't that then generate the additional hours for the weeks gone over? 

You don't change the Planned End Date. Chloe is right, if the AED is after the PED, that doesn't increase the required OTJ. I can't find where it says it, but you definitely only have to hit the minimum calculated OTJ for the planned duration or actual duration, whichever is shorter (and and meeting the minimum OTJ for a 12 month duration).

It'll be much easier for starts from 25/26!

Morning Ruth,

Thanks as well for the reply. Although the planned, lets say was 31/07/2024 but the actual end was 04/04/2025 (not EPA) then those weeks after the planned do not need to be calculated right as long as the original OTJ agreed has been hit?

Another and probably a silly question, if a learner completes a month or two earlier before the planned end date, are we required to confirm this and get the agreement with employer or is this an acceptable slippage? Everything that's done seems to have some sort of form to get signed etc, I'm trying to work as streamlined as possible but strictly within the rules. We need to work smarter as we are getting forms signed for every scenario you can imagine which naturally takes up a lot of resources. 

Many thanks in advance with all your help. 

Eamon  

Correct, you're fine if you just hit the original Planned OTJ, even if they took lots longer.

If they finish early and they don't hit the original Planned OTJ, for starts before 25/26, yes. You need to recalculate the minimum OTJ for the actual duration and make sure you hit that, and you must get agreement from the employer. If they finished early but still met the original planned OTJ, you don't need that agreement (paragraph 97 of the 24/25 rules).

That won't be required for 25/26 starts as the required OTJ doesn't flex and change with planned duration any more.

The apps funding stream is wildly admin heavy, we have forms for everything. Finishing early, Agreement Extensions when they finish late, breaks, return from breaks etc. 

Hi Ruth,

You're amazing, thanks spending time with this. Really appreciated. We're very happy with the 25/26 rules!

Luckily numbers are low, I really feel for larger mainstream colleges. It must be an absolute nightmare. We've been audited already and learnt so much just from that and we've been striving ever since to get even better.

What's your thoughts on the OTJ's in terms of auditing.

We run 4 year programmes, being industry experts we know the 1st year of the apprenticeship in our sector is really about learning from others onsite, with minimal On the Job. these hours reduce in year 2 and further more in year 3 as they progress. When it comes to year 4 this again ramps right up as this is the part of the qualification within the standard they need to pass to be able to register with a legal body to carry out works after. So, for our OTJ for the course could be 1144 for instance on ILR, but the true OTJ could be double that, if we inputted this data it would flag as red and create 'issues', so we are spending considerable time auditing the forms submitted along with register totals.

This is really heavy on time allocated, are we again approaching this wrong? When we did get audited the chap said it was subjective on the data supplied by the apprentice and checked by the tutor, but as he went through the forms he started to decline hours submitted! Hence the reason we now go through everything again to ensure we have the agreed amount. 

So what I'm kind of asking is do we input the agreed ILR OTJs agreed and stop counting after once we are satisfied they have been met, but there could be 300hrs extra that we haven't allocated over the 1144??

Thanks again. 

Eamon