Replies
No one has replied to this post.
Yeah, no, you're totally being too strict. The April 1 deadline was an absolute farce, there is literally no way for them to enforce it. The Apprentice just has to Stop Doing It and then you Have To Withdraw Them (because there is no evidence of them being in learning), it's not going to have any impact on their being able to go to Gateway, so why worry?
I understand your points and even agree with them a little regarding the deadline and enforcement. However, a deadline was given, and we are 8-9 months beyond that in another funding year.
Why worry? Because It may get pulled out at audit.
But like Steve says, if they refuse to attend, then you have to withdraw them anyway. The EPAO isn't going to refuse to pass them without the E&M, so what else is there to do? Telling the student they can't finish the apprenticeship because they didn't make an English/maths decision at the right time (or heaven forbid, changed their mind) is extreme. All you can do is note that it was agreed that they would do E&M, and the student just stopped attending against your advice.
If a student now starts in 25/26, there is no deadline. It just says: "47. Unusual retention and withdrawal patterns in English and / or maths provision for apprentices aged 19+ can be considered as a contextual factor in performance reviews under the Apprenticeship Accountability Framework". That deadline was always really weird, maybe those withdrawals before aren't counted as potentially unusual withdrawal patterns.
Ruth Canham-James Steve Hewitt
Thank you both for your input. I will have a further think, and see what the auditors we engage with think.
Becky O'Brien
19+ App FS - withdrawal after deadline or initial assessment
Edited
I'm wondering if my reading of the funding rules is too strict.
I've been asked if an apprentice who was 19+ starting in 2024 can now be removed from their FS (with permission of the employer).
My thoughts are and always have been "No. There was a deadline of 1st April 2025 for those already on apprenticeships. If that deadline wasn't met, then the apprentice must attempt the FS".
I've also held the line that if the chooses for them to do/not do FS at the start, then this can't be changed. I take this from this clarification note below and that initial assessments only take place BEFORE the start of the provision, not during:
Am I being too strict? Would you allow someone who has started to withdraw, if it wasn't an admin error (e.g. it can be proved that the employer had always intended the reverse of what ended up in the training plan).
PS: I have now asked the Apprenticeship Service Helpdesk for clarification, and they agree with my interpretation of there being no provision in the rules to withdrawn earlier starting apprentices, nor for the employer to change their mind after the initial assessment for those starting after the rule change. Will leave this "query" here just in case it helps someone else.