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Hi Emma,
We have had this a few times and we haven't been able to find specific guidance either, we have been back and forth with the service desk and asked for published guidance on it, but I don't think it has appeared.
Unfortunately, neither of the options you mentioned quite work, TNP3/4 for new employers work in a very specific way, that can't deal with breaks.
The guidance we have been given is that we use TNP3/4 but not at the same value as originally agreed with the second (or subsequent employer) as this doesn't consider the funding you have had from the second employer prior to the break due to the way TNP3/4 works, so if you use the same TNP3/4 values, you will ultimately exceed the cap (or any reduced rate you agreed at the start of the programme).
You need to create a new TNP3/4, take the values from the second employer, then reduce the TNP3 by the value of funding you claimed from the second employer up to the point of the break.
For example, if we assume the band max was £10k and this was charged to employer 1:
Employer 1
- TNP1 - £9,000
- TNP2 - £1,000
- Total TNP - £10,000
Claimed £2,000 before they change employer
Employer 2
- TNP3 - £7,000
- TNP4 - £1,000
- Total TNP - £8,000
Claimed £1,500 before they went on the break
Return from Break in Learning
- TNP3 - £5,500
- TNP4 - £1,000
- Total TNP - £6,500
Due to the change in TNP you also need to ask you employer to approve a DAS change to ensure the value meets your ILR value.
If you don't amend the TNP3 value upon the return from the break it would ignore the £1,500 you claimed from the second employer, so would expect a further £8,000, as if it were another change of employer. This would result in you exceeding your original max TNP by £1,500, totalling £11,500 (£2,000 from employer 1, £1,500 from employer 2 pre-break and then £8k from employer 2 post-break. This gets even worse if you didn't charge the band max at the start, as this is the only way the ILR knows how to cap it.
I hope this helps, we only know as we run a long 3+ year programme and have had multiple scenarios of this unfortunately.
Kind Regards
Louise
P.S. Sorry for all the messages, it was too many characters but I felt needed the explanation for you.
Morning Louise,
Many thanks for your reply.
Please note that the learner had not changed employer prior to the break in learning, up to the point at which he went on the break in learning he was still with the original employer.
Upon returning from his break in learning he was then employed by a new employer.
This being the case how do we correctly record the price records?
Do we record the original TNP1 and TNP2 records as per the return from break in learning guidance, or residual price records due to the change in employer?
Many thanks
Emma
Emma Ford when this happened to one of our apprentices, when we did the restart ILR we recorded the new price as TNP 3 & 4 as the original price in the old ILR would effectively link to this 'restart' ILR anyway as it was a 'temp withdrawal' so links the two together. By putting a TNP 1 & 2 down on the new record, it may cause an error to come up as it may see them as two separate records.
Emma Ford
Restart after break in learning with new employer
Created
Hi all,
Is anybody able to confirm that if an apprentice returns from a break in learning but has changed employer in the process, whether or not you still record the original TNP1 and TNP2 records on the ILR as per the provider support manual guidance for restarts after a break in learning or should residual price records be recorded as per the guidance on change of employer?
There doesn’t seem to be any clarification anywhere for this scenario in any of the rules/guidance (unless I’m missing something). We have raised a query with the apprenticeship service but as always have been given conflicting advice on two separate occasions.
Many thanks
Emma