apprentice now complete with actual end date in 19/20

Correct. You only get apprenticeship payments for amounts that were "due" in an open year, and for frameworks it's the Actual End Date that determines when the completion payment was due. We've had this happen to us a couple of times, and the completion payment doesn't come through as it was "due" in a closed year. The same happens if an apprentice starts in July, but you don't manage to get them in the ILR before that year closes, you never get the July payment. You might want to check with ESFA whether you can claim it another way.

Ruth Canham-James, with regards to Standards, if an apprentice is sat at awaiting results on the ILR in July/August/September of the current funding year but the awaiting results (completion status 1 and outcome 8) hasn't converted to an achievement/fail by R04, do you lose the completion payment too?

Melanie Aspinall With Standards, the thing that triggers the completion payment is the Achievement Date. As long as the Achievement Date falls in an open year, that's when you were due the money, and so it will come through once you enter that date.

It's a lot harder to fall foul of this one with Standards than it was with Frameworks. The only thing to watch out for is someone sits their EPA in July and fails, but decides they're going to have another go, so you don't put the achievement date in yet because they may pass at a later date. If they then decide not to resit after all and just give up, your achievement date has to be the date they did their last assessment. If they only decided that after R14 had closed, you'd lose your completion payments as the Achievement date would be in the closed year. So, make sure before you close a year, that you don't have any apprentices still waiting on EPA resits where they did their last EPA attempt in the closing year. At least make sure they still fully intend to sit their EPA again. I can't imagine there very often being a gap between EPA attempts big enough to cause problems though.

Thanks Ruth Canham-James , that's really useful. May help in reconciling missing payments....!

Ruth Canham-James Sorry to bother you again but was wondering re: the following:

 So, make sure before you close a year, that you don't have any apprentices still waiting on EPA resits where they did their last EPA attempt in the closing year. 

If we did miss updating the ILR prior to R14, could you by any chance do a manual adjustment? Is there any way to claim these payments back that you know of?

TIA

Mel

Melanie Aspinall I don't know, you've have to contact ESFA. That scenario is going to be very rare. They have mechanisms to give back over claim, you'd hope they have mechanisms to claim under payments.