Own staff apprenticeships

To use a technical term, this is "rubbish".

Every main provider on RoATP can deliver Apps to their own staff, this has always been the case.

Now, you have to follow the employer-provider rules when you do, specifically "you must not make a profit" (so the TNP should probably be lower than a non-employee doing the same thing), but that's it.

Not really relevant, but to share the pain anyway, we were an employer only using a training company, and have recently become an employer-provider. It was quite a long winded process getting approved!

Thank you both. 

My understanding was that you could, as you rightly say Steve. I queried this as the employer-provider rules state the rules are basically only for levy employers delivering to their own staff. 

I got the same response from two different people at ESFA, which says you cannot deliver to your own staff and must use another provider to deliver the training unless you are on RoATP as an employer-provider. 

I am really confused! 

I'm glad someone else has said this Steveh.  I was convinced that as a main provider you can deliver to your own staff but Kims ESFA response had me confused. 

However, seeing that ESFA have told kim she can't i'm not sure where that leaves it?

The rule is:

P2 Main providers delivering to their own staff must follow the employer-provider rules and only claim actual costs.

So if you are a Main provider you can deliver to your own staff but must only claim actual costs.

HTH

Well, I'm not switching off the funding for the two Apps we employ and I don't advise anyone else to...

Thank you Martin and Steve. 

Martin West I did read this in the guidance, however when you read the employer-provider guidance it says you must be a levy paying employer to follow the guidance. 

This is the response I got from the ESFA when I asked for clarification around this: 

Kim, have you got the Service Desk ref number for this because it's definitely wrong and I need to tell the right people?

Thanks Steve- it is 715134

Not sure it does say that, but the definition is:

Employer-provider

Any organisation who delivers some, or all, of the ‘off-the-job’ training element of an apprenticeship to their own staff and holds a contract with us through which we directly route funds from their apprenticeship service account or government-employer co-investment.

Steve Hewitt did anything come of you notifying the ESFA that they were giving out incorrect guidance on this one?

it was passed on by Paul who used to organise Technical User Group to the AS Support Team Leader, but that's all I know (good thing I never delete an email ;))

Excellent, perhaps they'll respond to that one before R14 too... today is a cynical day.

I mean, as Martin points out above, it's P2 of the Rules, so it's *definitely* fine, I'd say 95% of the providers I work with train their own staff and very few of them are levy payers.