Ruth Canham-James
Working in College MIS since July 2009.
Last activity
Member since
Votes
251
Subscriptions
1160
Replies
Ruth Canham-James commented,
The actual apprenticeship itself (the ZPROG) doesn't need an HE data set, so no HESES Mode of STULOAD required. If you're including a L4+ Z00 code as well, that also doesn't need an HE data set (I've had that argument with OfS, and they agreed in the end, though it still comes up in the year end validation checks). If you're delivering an actual L4+ qualification, it's usually easy for HNC, HND, Foundation Degrees and Degrees. Basically, when one of those is full time, HNC or HND top up = 100, full HND or Foundation Degree = 200 and Degree = 300 in terms of STULOAD. If you're returning a HESES and an ILR, and you do any years of study that don't fit in the normal academic year (Jan or Easter starts for example) don't get muddled up with STULOAD in the ILR (academic year specific), and whether they're FT or PT in HESES (study year specific). A student doing an HND over two years starting in Jan, would only go in two HESES returns as full time. In the ILR, their mode would still be full time, but they'd appear in three academic years, with approximate STULOAD of 60/100/40 across the three years. All our apprentices that do a recognised HE qual, do it in double the time a full timer would (HNC takes two years, HND takes 4 years etc). So they're all PT, and since we only start then in Sep/Oct, they're always STULOAD 50. When you do non-recognised Level 4+ aims, that gets very complicated, and you have to follow the HESES definition of FT, which is in Annex D paragraph 3 of the HESES23 guide. The STULOAD I work out based on that definition meaning that FT is at least 504 hours a year, compared with the TQT of the aim. That gives me a whole aim STULOAD, which I then have to divide over duration across multiple academic years.
The actual apprenticeship itself (the ZPROG) doesn't need an HE data set, so no HESES Mode of STULOAD required. If you're including a L4+ Z00 code as well, that also doesn't need an HE data set (I'...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
We had to hire an entire full time new role to deal with Apprenticeships (we have around 1,000 apps on programme in any given year). Managing the DAS, chasing up cohorts on DAS but never enrolled, chasing up apprentices who managed to get enrolled with no DAS record yet, dealing with it when reservations aren't done in time, dealing with price changes, working out remaining funding in band for transfers from other providers, working out prices for change of employer, dealing with Breaks and restarts, dealing with stops, calculating insufficient funds, helping employers who are stuck, data locks, making sure employers have paid, and on and on. They work with the apps delivery team, the account managers, and employers. And yes, employers do some extraordinarily odd things!
We had to hire an entire full time new role to deal with Apprenticeships (we have around 1,000 apps on programme in any given year). Managing the DAS, chasing up cohorts on DAS but never enrolled, ...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
We'd assess them first. If they did come out as working at level 2 already (or close), we'd just enter them for the assessments, for which you can't claim funding. If the assessment clearly showed they weren't up to Level 2 standard, we'd plan some delivery first before the assessment, for which you can claim funding. If you only decide to deliver part of the content, you should reduce down the proportion of funding remaining. Some students get confused about what they've actually done, some aren't entirely truthful, some studied at questionable providers.
We'd assess them first. If they did come out as working at level 2 already (or close), we'd just enter them for the assessments, for which you can't claim funding. If the assessment clearly showed ...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
I also pasted the latest csv data into a spreadsheet I made a couple of weeks ago, that looks up all the relevant dates I need from various tables, for just the aims we deliver, and it works beautifully!
I also pasted the latest csv data into a spreadsheet I made a couple of weeks ago, that looks up all the relevant dates I need from various tables, for just the aims we deliver, and it works beauti...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
Steve Hewitt Yes, except I have no idea how to check our learning aims against the mdb except one at a time (I'm no programmer, and I don't see the point of learning Access). I really need to ask our developers to build me something that ties together the latest mdb and our own course data, I should have done that years ago. In the meantime, I've made a spreadsheet I can plug the CSVs and our own data into to get some useful dates. Wouldn't it be nice if ESFA produced something that you plug your own learning aims into that looked up the relevant Validity, LDNS and category Effective To dates. I guess everyone would want different stuff though.
Steve Hewitt Yes, except I have no idea how to check our learning aims against the mdb except one at a time (I'm no programmer, and I don't see the point of learning Access). I really need to ask o...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
Ah! If there's no actual L4+ regulated aim involved, you don't need the HE data set. I've had very long discussions with OfS and ESFA auditors about why we aren't going to be returning the HE data set for the L4+ Z00 codes for Standards. We definitely don't add it for the Standard Programme Aim. So when it come to HE data fields, it's not really relevant that they also happen to be apprentices when it comes to the ILR, you treat it the same as classroom delivery. (You do need to report degree apprenticeships separately in the HESES).
Ah! If there's no actual L4+ regulated aim involved, you don't need the HE data set. I've had very long discussions with OfS and ESFA auditors about why we aren't going to be returning the HE data ...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
Andrew Dickens I'd want it crystal clear in writing from ESFA that they intend for you to ignore this ILR rule (and the many mentions in the PSM); The date for a payment record (AFinType = PMR) must be the date on which the cash payment was received from the employer. I cannot find a real life example of a student with an achievement date in on academic year, with a PMR also in that academic year, but with a date of the following Aug/Sep. The Service desk may well be wrong, they don't understand the intricate workings of the calculations, so it may be that PMR records recorded with a date of Aug/Sep, but reported in 21/22, will be counted. If they're right though, that urgently needs to be added to the guidance as an exception. We shouldn't be left guessing when and when not to obey the rules!
Andrew Dickens I'd want it crystal clear in writing from ESFA that they intend for you to ignore this ILR rule (and the many mentions in the PSM); The date for a payment record (AFinType = PMR) m...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
Jessica De Melo Ouch! That's a really unfortunate set of events. If you can get the PMR in before R14 closes, you might get the payment? You won't know for sure until R14 is closed though. Early completion can be a real problem for levy payers who have very little levy money. They might be able to afford the payments each month just about, but if you sting them with 3 month balancing payment, they can fall into insufficient funds. It's a good reason to try not to give overlong durations, but some will always finish early, however realistic the planned duration. ESFA will likely tell you that the employers should be checking their financial info in the DAS, but I don't think many employers do that. We can't see it, so if the employer doesn't understand it, we don't stand much of a chance of anticipating co-investment.
Jessica De Melo Ouch! That's a really unfortunate set of events. If you can get the PMR in before R14 closes, you might get the payment? You won't know for sure until R14 is closed though. Early co...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
That depends when your Actual End Date is. The AED must represent the last date you can evidence learning. If that was before 01/08/2022, you report that in 21/22. If it was on or after 01/08/2022, you report it in 22/23 (even though 21/22 is still open). You should always report dates in the year in which they fell. If you found out after 21/22 closed, that the AED was in 21/22, you'd just have to report it in 22/23, but that can cause funding overclaim.
That depends when your Actual End Date is. The AED must represent the last date you can evidence learning. If that was before 01/08/2022, you report that in 21/22. If it was on or after 01/08/2022,...
Ruth Canham-James commented,
1 - Yes, we generally reduce durations due to RPL based on our own "normal" durations for a given Standard. However, we do adjust durations for other reasons. If we'd already agreed a different duration for a reason other than RPL, I'd probably apply the RPL reduction to that duration. However... 2 - Duration reductions are not a fixed calculation. You definitely don't have to reduce durations when you reduce the price. For example, you may have a mandatory qual where it's a fixed classroom based plan for a whole cohort and we can't deliver that quicker for one apprentice. There's a good bit in this guidance; There may be circumstances where content of the training programme is not needed, but it is impractical to reduce the overall duration of the apprenticeship, for example because the apprentice is learning alongside other apprentices who still need that off-the-job training content. If the overall duration is not reduced the programme must still meet the minimum requirements of the off-the-job-training policy (for the full apprenticeship programme’s duration) and the minimum duration of the funded apprenticeship. If the employer and apprentice agree that they should not attend the unfunded elements of the programme, the apprentice must remain involved in active learning, as required by the funding rules.
1 - Yes, we generally reduce durations due to RPL based on our own "normal" durations for a given Standard. However, we do adjust durations for other reasons. If we'd already agreed a different dur...