Paul Taylor

Systems and MI Manager at The Growth Company

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Paul Taylor commented,

Hi Steve It is entirely possible that I am not getting this, and appreciate the response you have shared from DfE above, but will explain my thinking below.  I keep going back to the QAR spec which is the published guidance and therefore should be the source of the truth. In the overdue planned breaks section the first logic is clear to me. If a break in learning does not return in that ILR year or the subsequent year, then they will be flagged as an overdue break in learning and therefore counted as a withdrawal. My reading of the "continuation of break record" is that this explains the process by which the continued submission of the BiL means that the learner is not counted as an overdue break through year 1 and year 2, but that if they have not returned by the end of year 2 then the earlier logic is then applied. Again, I appreciate the DfE info that you have shared but that is not what the guidance says and yes, we are seeing some of these in our data. Infinite BiLs (sounds like one of those recurring MIS staffers recurring bad dreams) would be a significant change in approach which is not communicated in the changes part of the spec but again note your point above on approach through the accountability process. We know where BiLs as QAR exclusions have taken us before so this would seem like a departure for the DfE. It is a slightly different point, but Sam Bern in the other QAR thread has fed back that late notified breaks to withdrawals with end dates in the previous year have not been acknowledged as an error so possible an issue with BiLs in the data extracts.  I suppose that leaves two points; can someone from the DfE pick up this conversation and bring some clarity to our discussion – I will also take this to them – and can the QAR people talk to the sector about such changes. I did raise this again at the latest tech user group that we need more conversation and openness on what is the most important metric in the sector. 

Hi Steve It is entirely possible that I am not getting this, and appreciate the response you have shared from DfE above, but will explain my thinking below.  I keep going back to the QAR spec which...

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Paul Taylor commented,

Hi Carrie Yes, I think that is correct. I'm assuming if you had her in R12 that she would also been in R14 as a break.as well. 

Hi Carrie Yes, I think that is correct. I'm assuming if you had her in R12 that she would also been in R14 as a break.as well. 

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Paul Taylor commented,

I think that response contradicts what is in the spec, and we think our R10 data shows no change in process for BiL. If they do not return by R14 of the year after they went on a break, then they get treated as a withdrawal in the QAR. The section on breaks in full below. Overdue planned breaks We also treat learning aims as withdrawals in the QAR methodology where they have a Completion status of 6 (‘Learner has temporarily withdrawn from the aim due to an agreed break in learning’) and where either: they do not have a corresponding restart record in the same funding year they do not have a corresponding restart record or continuation of break record in the following funding year If this scenario happens, we will set the reporting year to 1 year after the later of either: the expected end year the actual end year For example, if you recorded an aim with a planned end date in July 2024 that had a break in learning beginning in April 2023, this will be a withdrawn aim in the 2024 to 2025 funding year if there is no restart record or continuation of break record in either: the R14 ILR return in 2023 to 2024 the R14 ILR return in 2024 to 2025 When we treat records as withdrawn due to the situation described they become flagged and described as ‘overdue planned breaks’. An ILR record is a restart record if it has a Learning Delivery Funding and Monitoring Type of ‘RES’ with a Learning Delivery Funding and Monitoring Code of 1 (Learning aim restarted). We match restart records to planned break records by matching the UKPRN, Unique Learner Number and the Original learning start date on the restart or continuation of break record where it matches either the: learning start date original learning start date (to allow for situations where the planned break was itself a restart) of the planned break record for either: Programme type and Framework code for apprenticeships or Learning aim reference for other aims

I think that response contradicts what is in the spec, and we think our R10 data shows no change in process for BiL. If they do not return by R14 of the year after they went on a break, then they g...