Karen Fone
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Karen Fone commented,
Hi Darren, Happy New Year. I have had the same question posed twice in the last few months and surprisingly had the same answer on both occasions from the helpdesk..... That they are not eligible as do not meet P20.4. It still leaves questions in my head... am I overthinking it... probably not! Karen
Hi Darren, Happy New Year. I have had the same question posed twice in the last few months and surprisingly had the same answer on both occasions from the helpdesk..... That they are not eligible...
Karen Fone commented,
Another Question for clarification [image] Does the above mean that including apprentice's on Part-time or zero hour contracts that: - the planned duration has to be extended in-line with the funding rule requirements, however, if they are ready to achieve ahead of the new minimum planned duration for the hours worked, but after 12 months and the minimum OTJ hours for the actual time has been met then they can complete their apprenticeship training? example - original start date 01/09/2023 Extended duration due to part-time hours - 01/12/2024 completes all learning by 10/09/2024 - this is acceptable (as long as OTJ hours have been met also)? Thanks
Another Question for clarification Does the above mean that including apprentice's on Part-time or zero hour contracts that: - the planned duration has to be extended in-line with the funding ru...
Karen Fone commented,
Question regarding Funding Rule 20.4 To access funds in the employer’s apprenticeship service account or government-employer co-investment, the provider must ensure that the individual : Is able to complete the apprenticeship within the time they have available, including the end-point assessment. If the provider knows an individual is unable to complete the apprenticeship in the time they have available, (e.g., because their visa will expire or because they have a fixed term contract which is shorter than the duration of the apprenticeship), they must not be funded. In regards to applicants who have a British Residence Permit (BRP), and this is due to expire prior to the end of the apprenticeship programme, are they not eligible? Where apprenticeship programme duration is for 3+ years (such as degree apprenticeships) this will rule out a lot of applicants, as their visa will expire prior to the end date of the apprenticeship, however their intention would be to reapply for a new / extended visa. I would expect to confirm the applicants intentions, however this seems to discount these individuals completely? This seems to disadvantage a considerable number of applicants?
Question regarding Funding Rule 20.4 To access funds in the employer’s apprenticeship service account or government-employer co-investment, the provider must ensure that the individual : Is able to...
Karen Fone commented,
Hi Martin That is what we would do. Where a learner has completed but failed EPA we would code as 2:3 and add the completion date as the last date of EPA. If the learner then goes on to resit and then achieves we would update to show as a 2:1. (The ESFA confirmed that the completion date would not be altered from the one originally entered). Where a learner needs to Retake - goes back into learning, we would code the failed EPA as a 2:3 and add a completion date of the final date of EPA, we would then add new aims with a restart indicator, set the new period of learning. Any funding that is remaining, and then follow the process to go back into gateway. Karen
Hi Martin That is what we would do. Where a learner has completed but failed EPA we would code as 2:3 and add the completion date as the last date of EPA. If the learner then goes on to resit and ...
Karen Fone commented,
I wanted to add to this thread as I too have been in touch with the ESFA helpdesk, and received the below: If a learner fails EPA and achieves on resit only, then the outcome only can be amended to show that they have now achieved. No other fields are to be amended and a new aim is not required. If further learning has been identified for the learner before their retake, then a new aim is required as a restart with a funding adjustment . The new aim is recorded this way so that any further funding due can be paid before the retake. Please see the link below regarding outcomes:- https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/previous/20-21/psm/article/recording-learning-outcomes (Recording retakes and resits) So......... this is saying that only the outcome is changed and no date changes for resits, and for retakes we DO have to add a new learning aim, (which goes against what Martin had said?). I have responded to the helpdesk and asked if they can look at this thread and get a definitive answer for all providers. Karen
I wanted to add to this thread as I too have been in touch with the ESFA helpdesk, and received the below: If a learner fails EPA and achieves on resit only, then the outcome only can be amended ...
Karen Fone commented,
Hi Steve, Exactly my thoughts, and this has not been picked up or highlighted as a major change.
Hi Steve, Exactly my thoughts, and this has not been picked up or highlighted as a major change.
Karen Fone commented,
Hi Martin, That is the way i read it too, but I do not understand why it makes a difference as to where the apprentice would be 'sitting' to do the same job for the same company? Why does the individual have to physically sitting at a desk in England to be eligible, or could be doing exactly the same job for the same company but sitting at a desk in another house across the road and be in Wales and be ineligible? These are the types of questions I am asked from employers, and want to be able to answer the questions.
Hi Martin, That is the way i read it too, but I do not understand why it makes a difference as to where the apprentice would be 'sitting' to do the same job for the same company? Why does the indiv...
Karen Fone commented,
Has anyone else noticed that the section in the Funding Rules for 2021/22 around Residency Eligibility and particularly family members of UK and EEA nationals no longer has any reference to the Principal, and states the following: A 'family member' is the husband, wife, civil partner, child, grandchild, dependent parent or grandparent of a UK or EEA national.A family member is eligible for funding if they: where required to do so, have obtained pre settled or settle status under the EU settlement scheme and have been ordinarily resident in the UK or EEA for at least the previous three years on the first day of learning. I would have thought that this could have some significant impact on learners who would have been eligible in 2020/21 and will no longer be in 2021/22 - unless I am missing something?
Has anyone else noticed that the section in the Funding Rules for 2021/22 around Residency Eligibility and particularly family members of UK and EEA nationals no longer has any reference to the Pri...