Charmaine Keeley
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Charmaine Keeley commented,
Steve Hewitt and Jessica De Melo are you both adopting the same approach for Functional Skills, i.e. not recording a fail until you're sure the learner won't be having another go?
Steve Hewitt and Jessica De Melo are you both adopting the same approach for Functional Skills, i.e. not recording a fail until you're sure the learner won't be having another go?
Charmaine Keeley commented,
Thank you Jessica, it's reassuring to hear your experience too :)
Thank you Jessica, it's reassuring to hear your experience too :)
Charmaine Keeley commented,
It's reassuring to have someone talk sense, Steveh! It's daft really, because if they fail the first element, of course we wouldn't record 'no achievement' as the outcome. They'd resit it, then go on to the second element and so on. So it seems strange that the helpdesk think that just because they happen to fail the last element in the sequence that that's it, end of. Why would that one element be treated any differently to the prior elements? I think we'll adopt as per what everyone else seems to be doing. I'm confident I could justify the logic if it were to be challenged. Thanks for your help and advice :)
It's reassuring to have someone talk sense, Steveh! It's daft really, because if they fail the first element, of course we wouldn't record 'no achievement' as the outcome. They'd resit it, then go ...
Charmaine Keeley commented,
Thank you. I emailed the helpdesk this same question earlier today (I thought it would take much longer to get a response from them), but they have just come back with this reply: If all elements of the EPA have been completed but the learner has failed, you should record the ILR as complete - no achievement. If the learner resits EPA please follow the below guidance – https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/23-24/psm/article/recording-learning-outcomes#article-Recording%20retakes%20and%20resits But this says 'Where no further learning is required and the learner is only resitting the assessment or exam, then this is not funded by the ESFA and a new aim must not be recorded.' but then we'd never get to record the pass, if that is the ultimate end result. And it clearly contradicts the process which most other providers seem to be adopting i.e. not recording an outcome at all until they're sure that is the final result for the apprentice. Whichever way we go, I just don't want it to cause issues at audit later down the line.
Thank you. I emailed the helpdesk this same question earlier today (I thought it would take much longer to get a response from them), but they have just come back with this reply: If all elements o...
Charmaine Keeley commented,
Thanks Steveh, I'll see if I can find the previous threads. Much appreciated.
Thanks Steveh, I'll see if I can find the previous threads. Much appreciated.
Charmaine Keeley commented,
Charmaine Keeley commented,
Martin West no problem at all, I've found this one a minefield if I'm honest because even ESFAs own guidance seems contradictory at times. I just want to ensure we get the funds we're due (and not more), and that we don't fall foul of something at audit. I have queried with the Help Desk also but no response as yet. I asked here on the chance someone may have had the same scenario. I'll update once I've heard back from the Help Desk, assuming they give a definitive answer! Thank you for your advice.
Martin West no problem at all, I've found this one a minefield if I'm honest because even ESFAs own guidance seems contradictory at times. I just want to ensure we get the funds we're due (and not ...
Charmaine Keeley commented,
Thank you Martin West. I'm struggling because this guidance seems to suggest otherwise. Calculating the TNP value after a change in employer – ESFA help centre (education.gov.uk) In the example they give, when the learner returns from a BIL they calculate a new/revised TNP3 and TNP4. So they had a TNP1/2, then a TNP3/4 after a change of employer, then a revised TNP3/4 after returning from a BIL.
Thank you Martin West. I'm struggling because this guidance seems to suggest otherwise. Calculating the TNP value after a change in employer – ESFA help centre (education.gov.uk) In the example the...
Charmaine Keeley commented,
Martin West we already had residual prices recorded as there had been a change of employer prior to the BIL, so now when they return we're having to enter new residual prices (I think). Ruth Canham-James thank you, I can see that 1/8 makes sense in this scenario. I'll discuss it with the rest of my team as a potential option.
Martin West we already had residual prices recorded as there had been a change of employer prior to the BIL, so now when they return we're having to enter new residual prices (I think). Ruth Canham...
Charmaine Keeley commented,
Hi Martin West, thank you for commenting. Basically the scenario we have is that 80% (all OPPs) were paid to us before the learner went on a BIL. All that is left is the completion payment, but I'm not clear how I'm meant to split that between TNP3 and TNP4 when we record the learner's return from BIL? I thought TNP3 was meant to be the residual figure relating to training costs, and TNP4 should be the residual figure relating to EPA? If that's correct then I assume I would put: TNP3 - £0 TNP4 - £456 (which is all the funding remaining and relates to EPA costs) There are no OPPs left to be made, so when we record the completion details will it pay us the full £456 (rather than 20% of it)? Or should I be doing something else? Thank you for your help. Charmaine
Hi Martin West, thank you for commenting. Basically the scenario we have is that 80% (all OPPs) were paid to us before the learner went on a BIL. All that is left is the completion payment, but I'...