Failed final EPA element - no achievement?

Couple of threads about this last week, but if they're doing a resit, you leave it at 1&8 until they've done the resit and only record the completion when they definitely stop doing the EPA.

Thanks Steveh, I'll see if I can find the previous threads. Much appreciated.

Here you go:

https://customerhelp.education.gov.uk/hc/en-gb/community/posts/16610217316754-Completion-Status-Payment-processing

Thank you. I emailed the helpdesk this same question earlier today (I thought it would take much longer to get a response from them), but they have just come back with this reply:

If all elements of the EPA have been completed but the learner has failed, you should record the ILR as complete - no achievement.

If the learner resits EPA please follow the below guidance –

https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/23-24/psm/article/recording-learning-outcomes#article-Recording%20retakes%20and%20resits

But this says 'Where no further learning is required and the learner is only resitting the assessment or exam, then this is not funded by the ESFA and a new aim must not be recorded.' but then we'd never get to record the pass, if that is the ultimate end result. 

And it clearly contradicts the process which most other providers seem to be adopting i.e. not recording an outcome at all until they're sure that is the final result for the apprentice. Whichever way we go, I just don't want it to cause issues at audit later down the line. 

Aaaaaaaaargh, you would not *believe* the number of times we've tried to explain what a resit is to them!!! ;)

It's all to do with the concept of "completing" assessment. In this case the learner has not completed their assessment because they are, as is allowed by the EPAO, having another go at it. All an auditor will want to see is proof of the final result which will have a date that should be the same as what you're putting in the field that is called AchDate.

That PSM guidance is so janky, no one's *ever* done it like that. In classic classroom delivery, if someone fails in April and resits and passes in July, damn right we'd put that pass in... And I've been getting that through audit for twenty years...

It's reassuring to have someone talk sense, Steveh!

It's daft really, because if they fail the first element, of course we wouldn't record 'no achievement' as the outcome. They'd resit it, then go on to the second element and so on. So it seems strange that the helpdesk think that just because they happen to fail the last element in the sequence that that's it, end of. Why would that one element be treated any differently to the prior elements? 

I think we'll adopt as per what everyone else seems to be doing. I'm confident I could justify the logic if it were to be challenged.

Thanks for your help and advice :)

To reassure you further, we had the same conversation with our DfE account manager where we quoted the ILR PSM guidance and their response was to wait until they re-sit and pass before recording achievement information :) 

Thank you Jessica, it's reassuring to hear your experience too :)  

Steve Hewitt and Jessica De Melo are you both adopting the same approach for Functional Skills, i.e. not recording a fail until you're sure the learner won't be having another go? 

Hi Charmaine,

We don't have many functional skills learners so haven't come across this yet. Hopefully Steve Hewitt can help :)

Hiya

I mean, they mainly can't go to Gateway until they've passed, can they? Given FS on Apps don't have real achievement rates anyway, definitely fine to record the final final result there, and nothing else.

Hiya,
I've got an error on achievement date as we record complete, no achievement for 2 apprentices who fails the EPA, hence no achievement date.  Any idea how to resolve the issue? 

Brenda Tseng

Regardless of whether they passed or failed, if they completed the EPA you still need to populate the 'achievement' date. It's a bit of a misnomer to be honest, but the field marks the end of the EPA period rather than necessarily when they achieved. 

The programme aim must be updated with the Achievement date recorded as the date the end point assessment period for the programme was completed, whether the outcome was a success or a failure.

Thanks Ben.