Charmaine Keeley

Failed final EPA element - no achievement?

Created

Hello, 

We have a learner who has passed two elements of their EPA and failed the last element. They have time remaining in their EPA window to resit the failed element. I'm confused whether we should be recording the aim as complete - no achievement, as they have taken all elements of the EPA. Or, because they haven't reached the end of the end point assessment period yet, do we hold off recording a completion and allow them to resit. Then if they pass second time around we record completion and achieved. If they don't pass before the EPA period is up, is it at that point we record the no achievement?

Many thanks

Charmaine 

 

In order to be recorded as ‘Completed’ (Completion status code 2), both the training and end point assessment activities for the programme must be completed. An end point assessment that has resulted in a failed outcome can be classed as complete as long as the learner reaches the end of the end point assessment period, rather than withdrawing. If either of these have not been completed, then the programme aim cannot be recorded with Completion status code 2.

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Steveh

Couple of threads about this last week, but if they're doing a resit, you leave it at 1&8 until they've done the resit and only record the completion when they definitely stop doing the EPA.

Charmaine Keeley

Thanks Steveh, I'll see if I can find the previous threads. Much appreciated.

Charmaine Keeley

Thank you. I emailed the helpdesk this same question earlier today (I thought it would take much longer to get a response from them), but they have just come back with this reply:

If all elements of the EPA have been completed but the learner has failed, you should record the ILR as complete - no achievement.

If the learner resits EPA please follow the below guidance –

https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/23-24/psm/article/recording-learning-outcomes#article-Recording%20retakes%20and%20resits

But this says 'Where no further learning is required and the learner is only resitting the assessment or exam, then this is not funded by the ESFA and a new aim must not be recorded.' but then we'd never get to record the pass, if that is the ultimate end result. 

And it clearly contradicts the process which most other providers seem to be adopting i.e. not recording an outcome at all until they're sure that is the final result for the apprentice. Whichever way we go, I just don't want it to cause issues at audit later down the line. 

Steveh

Aaaaaaaaargh, you would not *believe* the number of times we've tried to explain what a resit is to them!!! ;)

It's all to do with the concept of "completing" assessment. In this case the learner has not completed their assessment because they are, as is allowed by the EPAO, having another go at it. All an auditor will want to see is proof of the final result which will have a date that should be the same as what you're putting in the field that is called AchDate.

Steveh

That PSM guidance is so janky, no one's *ever* done it like that. In classic classroom delivery, if someone fails in April and resits and passes in July, damn right we'd put that pass in... And I've been getting that through audit for twenty years...

Charmaine Keeley

It's reassuring to have someone talk sense, Steveh!

It's daft really, because if they fail the first element, of course we wouldn't record 'no achievement' as the outcome. They'd resit it, then go on to the second element and so on. So it seems strange that the helpdesk think that just because they happen to fail the last element in the sequence that that's it, end of. Why would that one element be treated any differently to the prior elements? 

I think we'll adopt as per what everyone else seems to be doing. I'm confident I could justify the logic if it were to be challenged.

Thanks for your help and advice :)

Jessica De Melo

To reassure you further, we had the same conversation with our DfE account manager where we quoted the ILR PSM guidance and their response was to wait until they re-sit and pass before recording achievement information :) 

Charmaine Keeley

Thank you Jessica, it's reassuring to hear your experience too :)  

Charmaine Keeley

Steveh and Jessica De Melo are you both adopting the same approach for Functional Skills, i.e. not recording a fail until you're sure the learner won't be having another go? 

Jessica De Melo

Hi Charmaine,

We don't have many functional skills learners so haven't come across this yet. Hopefully Steveh can help :)

Steveh

Hiya

I mean, they mainly can't go to Gateway until they've passed, can they? Given FS on Apps don't have real achievement rates anyway, definitely fine to record the final final result there, and nothing else.