TNP3 and TNP4 when returning from BIL

Are you sure you are not confusing the 20% completion payment with the EPA costs?

The following is from the technical guidance:

Scenario F - The apprentice takes a break in learning.

250. When the apprentice resumes learning, we expect you to enter a price against the new programme aim in the ILR. This price may be the same as you previously recorded for the programme but can be a revised price depending on the amount of learning now required. After applying the funding band maximum, we will subtract 20% of this price for completion and, if the price is not a residual price, we will subtract any earnings to date. We will spread the remainder equally over the remaining planned duration.

HTH

Hi Martin West, thank you for commenting. 

Basically the scenario we have is that 80% (all OPPs) were paid to us before the learner went on a BIL. All that is left is the completion payment, but I'm not clear how I'm meant to split that between TNP3 and TNP4 when we record the learner's return from BIL? 

I thought TNP3 was meant to be the residual figure relating to training costs, and TNP4 should be the residual figure relating to EPA? If that's correct then I assume I would put:

TNP3 - £0

TNP4 - £456 (which is all the funding remaining and relates to EPA costs)

There are no OPPs left to be made, so when we record the completion details will it pay us the full £456 (rather than 20% of it)? Or should I be doing something else?

Thank you for your help. 

Charmaine

When a learner returns from a BIL you would normally use the total cost from the previous record split between TNP 1 and TNP 2.

Example: if original total price £10,000 would be split  between training costs TNP1 £9,544 and EPA TNP2 £456 but this is split 80/20% between on programme payments (£8000) and completion payment (£2000) if you have had all the on programme payments £8000 then there is £2000 left which on the restart is again split 80/20% to leave £1600 on programme and a £400 completion payment, the funding calculations do this automatically unless you enter a residual price.

HTH

I'm not sure of the answer, but we don't allow BIL once all delivery/OTJ has been completed, so we don't get this situation. If there is no further learning, it's not a break in learning, it's just a delayed EPA. We just leave them at 1/8 with an Actual End Date. We had a really good think about this before we came to this decision, but we're happy with it.

Gateway basically is the last day in learning. Apps rules say;

Final day

Defined in legislation as the final day of the practical period. This is the equivalent of the learning end date on the ILR (there must be evidence of learning on this learning end date) and internally it is also referred to as the “gateway” between the practical period and the end-point assessment. The term ‘final day’ is used as a measure in the redundancy policy to determine if the apprentice will be fully funded to completion. 

Martin West we already had residual prices recorded as there had been a change of employer prior to the BIL, so now when they return we're having to enter new residual prices (I think).

Ruth Canham-James thank you, I can see that 1/8 makes sense in this scenario. I'll discuss it with the rest of my team as a potential option. 

On a restart you record the latest previous price be it TNP1/2 or TNP3/4 as TNP1/2 on the financial details of the restart record.

HTH

Thank you Martin West. I'm struggling because this guidance seems to suggest otherwise. Calculating the TNP value after a change in employer – ESFA help centre (education.gov.uk)

In the example they give, when the learner returns from a BIL they calculate a new/revised TNP3 and TNP4. So they had a TNP1/2, then a TNP3/4 after a change of employer, then a revised TNP3/4 after returning from a BIL. 

Yes that does seem to be the case so I stand corrected, but it is important to remember that TNP ¾ indicate that you and the employer have negotiated a new price for the programme, and this must be calculated correctly to avoid going over the CAP.

Sorry but I do not always get it right.

Martin West no problem at all, I've found this one a minefield if I'm honest because even ESFAs own guidance seems contradictory at times. I just want to ensure we get the funds we're due (and not more), and that we don't fall foul of something at audit.

I have queried with the Help Desk also but no response as yet. I asked here on the chance someone may have had the same scenario. I'll update once I've heard back from the Help Desk, assuming they give a definitive answer! 

Thank you for your advice. 

Charmaine Keeley Did you manage to resolve this as we have the same situation i think. Only EPA left at £1200 but after a previous CHOE we only have £740 left in funding! What on earth do we record ??

Hi Michelle Leonard, based on advice from the helpdesk, we put TNP3 as £0 (learner was PPED and we'd received all on programme payments), and TNP4 as the value of funding left to be paid to us, not the full EPA cost, as due to prior change of employer and the 80/20 rule we'd already received some of that! 

We received the full balance of funding (i.e. the TNP4 figure) when the learner completed. 

So in your case, I'd be going with TNP3 as £0 and TNP4 as £740.

Charmaine Keeley Thank you so much for coming back to me. The costs in the DAS will need to match this now too i guess? Thank you again, really appreciate your help 

Michelle Leonard honestly, I can't remember what we did with the DAS. I'd probably try without DAS changes first and check the data match report. If it doesn't get flagged on there you should be ok.