Lisa Margach

Planned vs Required OTJ Hours

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Hi All,

Please can I check peoples understanding on the requirements for apprentices who complete with less OTJ hours than planned (but more than the minimum) and whether a statement is required from the employer.  We had been under the impression that we would only need a statement if the planned hours AND duration were less.  However, more recent guidance appears to be contradictory with references made to this no longer being required because of the removal of duration as a factor but also including the requirement for a statement elsewhere.  So could I check your understanding of what is required where learners do have less OTJ than planned but more than the minimum and whether this differs according to when learners started their apprenticeship?

Many Thanks

Lisa

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Ruth Canham-James

I think that policy change statement on page 42 is very misleading. They haven't removed it, they've replaced it (but only for 25/26 starts onwards). It used to be that we needed a statement when apprentices finished early and the hours were lower than planned, now it just seems to be if hours were lower than planned (paragraph 92-94). Honestly, the fact that this is required is just encouraging providers to record everyone's planned hours as the minimum and little/no more, to avoid this paperwork (especially as it has to be in addition to training plan changes, and has to be done within 12 weeks). There's no penalty or paperwork requirement for delivering more hours than planned.

Lisa Margach

Hi Ruth,

Thanks for coming back on this, would you say that for anyone who started prior to 25/26 we wouldn't need to do this, or is it best just to have it all as a coverall if any learners who complete fall into this category regardless of when they started?

Thanks

Lisa

Ruth Canham-James

For anyone who started before 25/26, I think the rules from 24/25 still stand, which is that you need to get it signed off if they finished early and did fewer hours than planned.

Ryan Wiseman

Following on from this - to confirm when you are looking at the rules for learners who are finishing early/if a variation statement is needed are you looking at their enrolment year/start year of the learner? For example an Electrical apprentice who started in 21/22 & hybrid end of 25/26 you would be looking in the 21/22 rules? Or are you looking at the latest update in the 25/26 rules.

In addition, if we do use a variation statement for an apprentice who has finished early & done less hours would we need to give back the equivalent funding that we have reduced the OTJ hours by? If yes, how would we go about the DAS/Paperwork side that has been in place all year/multiple years? 

Becky O'Brien

Ryan Wiseman (sorry there are 4 profiles with that name, so if this is wrong I can't tell)

To some extent you would look at the rules when they started, although I think I'd apply the need for a statement to all finishing early and with less than the full planned hours who started before 25/26 to be safe. 

25/26 rules in this area can't apply backwards as there has been a fundamental change in how OTJ is calculated.

No, you do not have to give back funding. You just need to have on file a record of the difference between the planned and actual, and the reason why they are different. It's not like a Skills Scan.