21_22 R01 FIS error for Prior Level

Should be on or before the start date matching the earliest learning aim start date for the learning agreement.

That looks like it's because the start date of the prior attainment is in the future? That's totally legitimate if you're returning a programme in your ILR that hasn't actually started yet. It might start at the end of August, and following the ILR spec rules of "The Prior attainment start date matching the earliest learning aim start date for the learning agreement", then that will error all month until you get past the start date. I do agree with Martin, that in these cases, it can generally be on or before the earliest start date. I've been advising our staff to report the Date Applies from of the prior attainment as 01/08/2021 for new starts in 21/22. Obviously that would be different if they progressed mid year, but it suits all our Sep starts.

I do agree that this rule is a real pain though.

Yeah, they're usually quite sparing with "dates after file prep" errors, because a lot of us have future learners in our files. Can't quite see why this should be an *error*, even in a situation where you're enrolling a 20 year old on an non-FL2 aim after they've done their FL2 (which is all it's really for anyway)...

Might drop them a line...

Thanks for your replies.   

The errors are all on starts in the future.

The rule forces you to give a Prior Learning date that  exactly matches the earliest enrolment date, this in itself created a huge amount of errors as we had used the actual date of taking the enrolment (I clearly didnt read the rule right).  This one has me stumped.

I can't see a rule that forces you to put the prior attainment date as exactly the earliest enrolment start date (though that's what the ILR spec says you have to do). Do you get an error if you put all the offending prior attainment rows in as early August? If not, I'd just do that.

R131, delightfully introduced last Friday in V2 of the validation rules...

If returned, There must be a prior attainment record matching the earliest learning aim start date for the learner

(Error where the PriorAttain.datelevelapp has been returned and the earliest value of PriorAttain.DateLevelApp <> DD06)

So it has to be exactly matching, but then you can't return it if you've got enrolments starting in the future? For goodness sake, I haven't got time for this. Why do they care if it matches exactly anyway? Surely the same day or earlier is fine, like with employment history. Let us know what they say.

FIS Version 1 did not include the updated validation rule so did not error on prior attainment dated prior to the start but it does in version 2.

Use the earliest learning aim start date for carry over and new starts in 21/22 any additional learning agreements after that are not validated.

HTH

a response...

Good afternoon Steve

Unfortunately, we cannot amend these rules because learning aims (ideally) should not be returned as future events in ILR files. This is because, if no learning is delivered for a learner, no learning should be recorded. 

However, even though these learners will show as errors, funding overall will not be affected (as these learners will not yet have drawn any), and other 'live' learners funding will not be affected by the errors.  

Regards

Michael (Subject area lead – ILR/Data returns)

I have had a similar response.

The rule is triggering as there is no need to return a learner prior to their start date. 

This entity is completed when the learning agreement has been agreed between the learner and provider. The prior attainment relevant to the agreement is recorded on the ILR with the start date matching the earliest learning aim start date for the agreement.

Where all learning activities relating to the agreement have been completed and if the learner progresses into further learning with the same provider, a new learning agreement is made and a new prior attainment to reflect that learning agreement is recorded.

The prior attainment is not updated during the period of learning where all activities relating to the learning agreement are continuing.

The prior attainment is not updated at the end of all learning activities relating to the learner agreement. A new record is only added at the start of any subsequent learning where a new learning agreement has been signed.

Steveh, why would we submit files with errors.................we have spent years ensuring files dont have errors!!!

I have asked our MI system provider if the threshold date is correct for extracting the ILR for the R01.  I have since asked the ESFA the same question about the FIS.

I will let you know if and when I get a response :)

I mean, it's absolutely fine to submit a file with errors, and, as they say, if they're in the future, you can't be missing out on funding.  However, most of us include the learners in the file to know what they're ***going*** to generate...

As R131 only checks against the aim with the earliest start date any other aims in the learning agreement are not included in the rule so future aims for the same learning agreement can be included in the ILR without triggering the error.

Hi all, I asked yesterday if this could be moved from being an Error to a Warning.  I have had a relpy this morning to say it has been passed to the Validation Team.

As some of the other validation rules check prior attainment against the start date of aims/programmes  we are expected to enter matching correct date (Date Level applies from) for Prior Attainment as required by the ILR specifications.

Hi Martin

the dates are correct for these enrolments, its triggering the error as the dates are after the date of the file I am loading into the FIS.

so........... I run a file today 11/08/2021 and run it though FIS, the error triggers as the learners earliers start date and subsiquent "Date Level applies from" is after 11/08/01. Surely this is a validation error on its own and not linked to any other, as long as the date is actually correct this could be a Warning rather than an error.

Joan,

Sorry my post was related rule R131 to those who think it should be on or before the earliest start date.

For rule PriorAttain_09, yes this will cause an issue when using FIS before the SLD opens but if you know the data is correct for starts in period 1 then you can ignore this as it would not error when the file is processed by the SLD.

Hi All,

R131 - I like most others had a tremendous time making sure all our start dates matched the earliest enrolment start date for all the rollovers. ridiculous and time consuming

PriorAttain_09 - Agree this needs to be at the very least a warning. There should be nothing stopping us putting future dated information in the ILR . We need this for forecasting and tracking purposes against allocations, if we are expected to produce funding claims as accurately as possible

Image trying to be proactive!

Cheers

1. Can we all please write to the service desk and tell them this is a bad idea, we have to assume that the Validation Rule team don't read this/won't take it seriously unless it's a ticket (he says, provocatively, in case one of them is reading it ;))?

2. Thought I might have come up with a ***filthy*** workaround, but if you change the file prep date in the xml to be in the future, it doesn't like that either (unless you've got a computer you can also hack the date on, of course...)!

Hi all

this was the email address I sent my request to, is this the correct email address for the service desk, if so we know it has gone to the correct place

Received: Tue Aug 10 2021 16:16:07 GMT+0100 (British Summer Time)
To: ESFA Enquiry Service <sde.servicedesk@education.gov.uk>; Adult education enquiries <sde.servicedesk@education.gov.uk>;
Subject: RE: FIS R01 error help CI-0092848 CRM:0052800515

thanks in advance

Joan

I think that's the right address, but that email now bounces back my emails as spam! I'm not sure what I did to upset them. I have logged that spam issue as a ticket on the web portal, but not had a reply yet.

I've been exclusively using the enquiry form for a while now because I seem to get a ticket number (or three) a lot sooner.

Education and Skills Funding Agency (ESFA) enquiry form - Customer type - DFE Online Forms

HI All

The FIS has now been updated and this is now a WARNING rather than an error.

thanks for all your input 

Joan

Hello

Just following these comments and I have a large amount of R131's in my data, I have the latest version of FIS on my Desktop and have just submitted a file on the Submit Learner Data website and they are still appearing as errors in both systems. Is the update going to be in the near future rather then already implemented or has the decision been revoked?

For new learners it isn't going to cause too many problems as I can update their dates the prior attainment relates to.  My problem is returning learners who have successfully completed one programme of learning, to which they have a prior attainment attached, and returned for a second.  I have duly added an updated prior attainment for the second programme in line with the start dates of the new apprenticeship and have left the first recorded prior attainment in place so now they have 2 (both dated correctly) however I am still getting an error that only goes away if I delete the prior attainment from the first programme of learning, which I'm sure isn't right as we have always have to have prior attainment, and leave the second.

I am also concerned the removal of the first programmes prior attainment will then impact on our R13/14 submission.

Any ideas?

Kind regards

Angie

ProSolution users who use online enrolment - are your prior attainment entries recorded against the student automatically defaulting to include in return=no.

For the online enrolments we have done today, i can see a prior attainment has been entered but the include in return flag is null. Not sure if there is a system setting around this but our IT department, who monitor our permissions, can't seem to find anything to default them as include in return.

Also do you have the StudentPriorAttainment table listed under Data Explorer. Want to look at the data as a whole but the table isn't showing for me - again not sure if its a permission issue.

Hi,  Jessi

I use Pro Solution.

Regardless of how the enrolment is taken these default to "no" for include in return.

I have had a few conversations with Advanced around this field.  They haven’t yet made the tables available for viewing or reporting, they are still the old ones.  Due to this you will be unable to bulk update this field until they update the system, which they will do in the next release. 

We dont use online enrolment and we have had this issue.  It also affects any rollover learners you have, but if you create a view with the Prior Attainment Level you should get their level recored in the previous year (as the new table is not yet visible, but the old one is (bazzar I know) and you can update the current year with a new record and tick to include in return.

I hope this helps

Joan

Thanks Joan - least i know its not just me! Thanks for the info about the table - do we know when the next release is out?

I'd managed to do something for the rollovers, annoyingly it felt very messy. I'll just have to live with the errors on new enrolments until we get access to the tables.

Hi all

I'm getting R131 errors on my R01 submission as well - "There must be a prior attainment record matching the earliest learning aim start date for the learner". Surely prior attainment, by definition, will be before the apprenticeship start date?

I'm manually correcting for now but have raised a query on the link Steve added for this issue.

Thanks

Jim

See note on ILR specification, must be:

The Prior attainment start date matching the earliest learning aim start date for the learning agreement.

You do have to use the earliest learning aim start date for carry over learners to 21/22 in the Learner Prior attainment entity and map the Prior level as per Appendix B of the ILR specifications.