Timmo
Have worked with ESFA training programme software for over 25 years. Formerly a senior training consultant for PICS with Pellcomp/Advanced, now available for freelance/contract work.
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Timmo commented,
Ruth Canham-James "I couldn't find the 25/26 validation rules, but that's because they're not in the Validation Rules section" - indeed :~) ! I keep forgetting about that and also that the csv download from the validation rules page is not a complete set of the rules either. As you say, you have to go to the appendices for that. The truth is out there. From DfE's point of view I imagine they are concerned that if people submit an ILR early then they may forget to delete it if they don't start, or not update the start (and various related) details if there is a change in circumstances. That said, the guidance on start date does read "The date on which learning for the learning aim began (accurate to within a week)" (my bold) so maybe that gives a bit of scope?
Ruth Canham-James "I couldn't find the 25/26 validation rules, but that's because they're not in the Validation Rules section" - indeed :~) ! I keep forgetting about that and also that the csv down...
Timmo commented,
The more I think about it the less likely it seems. From the Provider Support Manual 'Learning start date. This should reflect reality, for example, record the date when the specific aim starts.' I don't see how a future start date can ever reflect reality? Would be quite a big deal to change this.
The more I think about it the less likely it seems. From the Provider Support Manual 'Learning start date. This should reflect reality, for example, record the date when the specific aim starts.' I...
Timmo commented,
Hi Helen Bryant . Yes that's the rule I was thinking of and it still seems to be active and an error. I see the issue but wondering if whoever did the AS webinar was fully aware of the ILR validation requirements. They would need to have two rules for AFinType, one for TNP and another for PMR.
Hi Helen Bryant . Yes that's the rule I was thinking of and it still seems to be active and an error. I see the issue but wondering if whoever did the AS webinar was fully aware of the ILR validati...
Timmo commented,
Hi, you say: they all erroring with this error message "Apprenticeship financial record date' is wrong. It can't be after the file preparation date'' That would indicate it is a financial record, e.g. a TNP/PMR, that is the issue rather than a start date. I don't think financial records can be in the future as they only record payments that have been made or agreed. If you have the exact error rule code it will be easier to identify the problem. Further edit! Just realised the validation rules for 25/26 aren't available yet so I may be looking at old rules...
Hi, you say: they all erroring with this error message "Apprenticeship financial record date' is wrong. It can't be after the file preparation date'' That would indicate it is a financial record, e...
Timmo commented,
So for 25/26 you would create ILR files from the old and new systems, then bring them together ('and in the darkness bind them'...) using the file merge to (hopefully) remove duplicates? I've not used the file merge tool and can't see any documentation on exactly how it matches records. I assume it uses LRN but it would also have to at least use other aim details, as the same LRN can have more than one period of learning in a year. I don't think it uses PrevLearnRefNumber as that refers to the value in a previous year, whereas you are merging two files for the current year. If it does match on the principle date values, I don't know what it does then - does it then just ditch one record or does it then consider subsidiary records such as PMR/TNP/ACT, employment etc across the two and try to match & merge them? Instinct, and some experience of the complexity of matching & merging records, says not. I think it was mainly designed for use by providers with multiple locations or systems where duplicates were unlikely to occur. TBH, if at all possible I'd try to get everything on the new system and submit R01 from there. Certainly you would need to be sure that everything matched up exactly between the two systems to have a chance, and then check the resulting merged file very carefully. It is possibly one way to see if you have entered the new records correctly and definitely best to experiment well before the R01 submission deadline! Might be worth raising as a separate post to attract the attention of people who have used the merge tool?
So for 25/26 you would create ILR files from the old and new systems, then bring them together ('and in the darkness bind them'...) using the file merge to (hopefully) remove duplicates? I've not u...
Timmo commented,
Thanks Clare Parker-Doyle, TBH James Francis is a more knowledgeable source than I am these days!
Thanks Clare Parker-Doyle, TBH James Francis is a more knowledgeable source than I am these days!
Timmo commented,
Hi, The explanation on qualifying period for apps is in https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/qualification-achievement-rates-2024-to-2025/qualification-achievement-rates-2024-to-2025#exclusions. Scenario 5 (below) is the more common but scenario 6, covering restarts, may also apply (a bit long to paste in here). HTH Apprenticeships scenario 5 Apprenticeships where the learner has withdrawn from the apprenticeship within the funding qualifying period and has not achieved the learning aim. Rules for identifying the excluded apprenticeship: Programme aims where: the planned duration is 168 days or more the actual duration is less than 42 days; and the Completion Status is 3 (Withdrawal); and the Restart Indicator is 0 (Not a Restart)
Hi, The explanation on qualifying period for apps is in https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/qualification-achievement-rates-2024-to-2025/qualification-achievement-rates-2024-to-2025#exclusio...
Timmo commented,
Hi, some things to be aware of that I've come across in the past, mostly fairly obvious but still easy to miss: For learners who carry over to 25/6, if you make any changes or updates in one system, remember to replicate them in the other so the data is consistent across years. Likewise, any late-notified starts in 24/25 that you don’t discover until after R12 submission – remember to enter them in the old system as well as the new, so they are included in both ILR submission years. Some MIS will create the LRN automatically for new records - if so, when entering the carryover to the new system, you'll need to enter or change it to match their LRN from the previous system. Easy to forget... Will you still have access to the old system to get QAR figures for previous years? Or any other historic reports that may be useful? Another QAR issue - early leavers in 24/25 (or earlier) with a PED in 25/26 (or later) are counted in the latter year QAR. If you don't enter them in the new system, you'll need to add them manually to your own 25/6 (or later year) QAR figures from the new system.
Hi, some things to be aware of that I've come across in the past, mostly fairly obvious but still easy to miss: For learners who carry over to 25/6, if you make any changes or updates in one syste...
Timmo commented,
Hi, fair point I'd say - however, as per https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/25-26/ilr/summaryofchanges, the learner contact preference entity, which used RUI, has been withdrawn for the 25/26 ILR. RUI also applied at learner level whereas QAR exclusions really need to be identified at programme/learning delivery level.
Hi, fair point I'd say - however, as per https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/25-26/ilr/summaryofchanges, the learner contact preference entity, which used RUI, has been withdrawn fo...
Timmo commented,
Hi, The rules for 24/25 QAR exclusions are here. Are you thinking of Apprenticeships scenario 3?
Hi, The rules for 24/25 QAR exclusions are here. Are you thinking of Apprenticeships scenario 3?