Ben James
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Ben James commented,
Martin West is the webinar posted on the ESFA YouTube channel do you know? Or is there a PDF booklet somewhere? I've explained this exact scenario to a colleague but they're refusing to accept that the OTJ hours will remain the same but over the revised timeframewithout 'proof'
Martin West is the webinar posted on the ESFA YouTube channel do you know? Or is there a PDF booklet somewhere? I've explained this exact scenario to a colleague but they're refusing to accept that...
Ben James commented,
Steven's suggestion will almost certainly work, but depending on your interpretation of the "within 30 days" rule, another solution may be deleting the additional ACT line you have added because you only need to add a new one if the old employer/new employer have different contract types (i.e. one is Employer and one is ESFA). The rules state; If there is a change to the apprentice’s employer during their programme, then you must record a new Learner Employment Status record to reflect this. A new Apprenticeship contract type FAM record must be added if the new employer has a different apprenticeship contract type to the previous employer, for example if the apprentice has changed from an employer who is funded through a contract for services with the employer, to an employer who is funded through a contract for services with the ESFA that does not have an account on the apprenticeship service, then a new FAM record with ACT2 must be recorded.
Steven's suggestion will almost certainly work, but depending on your interpretation of the "within 30 days" rule, another solution may be deleting the additional ACT line you have added because yo...
Ben James commented,
I'd suggest the Employer funding rules covers this on page 7 where it states; "Apprentices must be an employee on the first day of their apprenticeship and as a minimum at least be paid a wage consistent with the law for the time they are in work, in off-the-job training and studying English and maths (if appropriate)" This to me says that the learner can only work towards FS during their paid time, and not outside of paid working hours.
I'd suggest the Employer funding rules covers this on page 7 where it states; "Apprentices must be an employee on the first day of their apprenticeship and as a minimum at least be paid a wage cons...
Ben James commented,
Yes you would. The PSM states; Payment records must only be used to record co-investment payments actually received from the employer. If you are a provider delivering an apprenticeship to your own employees, then you do not need to record co-investment payments on the ILR. In this circumstance, you must record code LDM356 ‘Apprenticeship being delivered to own employees’ in the Learning Delivery Funding and Monitoring fields on the apprenticeship programme aim. All Financial amounts recorded on the ILR must be recorded in pounds, to the nearest whole pound, and must not include the VAT element where this exists. Employers are required to make co-investment cash contributions in the following circumstances: The employer is not on the apprenticeship service and is funded through a contract for services with the ESFA, a non-levy paying employer and the apprentice is funded through co-investment The employer is a levy paying employer who has spent all of their digital account funds and so the apprenticeship is being fully or partially funded through co-investment The negotiated price for the apprenticeship exceeds the funding band, the employer is responsible for the price that is over the funding band.
Yes you would. The PSM states; Payment records must only be used to record co-investment payments actually received from the employer. If you are a provider delivering an apprenticeship to your own...
Ben James commented,
Providing there was a gap of less than 30 days between the learner leaving 'employer 1' and starting with 'employer 2', you'd also need to ensure you add a new apprenticeship FAM type if the contract is different (e.g. if 'employer 1' was 'ACT1' and 'employer 2' was 'ACT2'). If it isn't different, there's no need to update it. You'll also need to ensure new TNP lines are added (TNP3 and TNP4 for residual training and assessment costs, respectively). As far as DAS is concerned, 'employer 1' would need to enter a stop date for the learner on their digital account; this should correspond with the date the apprentice left their employ. 'Employer 2' can then add the learner onto their digital account, and providing the ILR information tallies, everything should be okay.
Providing there was a gap of less than 30 days between the learner leaving 'employer 1' and starting with 'employer 2', you'd also need to ensure you add a new apprenticeship FAM type if the contra...
Ben James commented,
Essentially, yes. You'd close the existing aim down as follows; Completion status = 3 Withdrawal reason = 40 Outcome = 3 Outcome grade = blank Learning actual end date = last learning activity for the aim You'd then open the new aim as follows; Learning start date = date on which they start(ed) the new aim Original learning start date = blank Learning planned end date = whatever the new assessed planned end date is Funding adjustment for prior learning = if applicable Restart indicator = not returned More information can be found in the guide here.
Essentially, yes. You'd close the existing aim down as follows; Completion status = 3 Withdrawal reason = 40 Outcome = 3 Outcome grade = blank Learning actual end date = last learning activity for...
Ben James commented,
Hi Michael, Completion status/Outcome should be 1/8 when the learning has been concluded and the learner enters gateway - they should only be set to '2 - Completed' once the learning and EPA have been finished (whether that is successfully, or unsuccessfully). The guidance states; "In order to be recorded as ‘Completed’ (Completion status code 2), both the training and end point assessment activities for the programme must be completed. An end point assessment that has resulted in a failed outcome can be classed as complete as long as the learner reaches the end of the end point assessment period, rather than withdrawing. If either of these have not been completed, then the programme aim cannot be recorded with Completion status code 2." The learner will need to be withdrawn as of the last date of evidenced learning.
Hi Michael, Completion status/Outcome should be 1/8 when the learning has been concluded and the learner enters gateway - they should only be set to '2 - Completed' once the learning and EPA have b...
Ben James commented,
Cheers Steve Hewitt. Probably should have assumed this was the solution, however divorced from logic it may be!
Cheers Steve Hewitt. Probably should have assumed this was the solution, however divorced from logic it may be!
Ben James commented,
Thanks Martin West - I've had a few of those as well! I've done a bit more digging and it seems like a couple of these have actually had a change in price, but it wasn't recorded as being from the beginning; [image] Firstly, no combination of these amounts would total what is quoted on the report, so that's confusing.. but with that aside, do you think the fact the training price has changed could've caused an issue? Maybe adding the assessment price again with a date of 10/03/2021 to match the training price? Doesn't really make sense, but I'm struggling for options!
Thanks Martin West - I've had a few of those as well! I've done a bit more digging and it seems like a couple of these have actually had a change in price, but it wasn't recorded as being from the ...
Ben James commented,
Martin West - As always, thanks for your input. Unfortunately I wasn't personally present otherwise I'd have definitely asked which funding rule they were referring to that stipulates we must keep a copy of the certificate. I can appreciate how 'evidence of completion' is I guess most easily demonstrated by the completion certification, but my issue was with the fact they stated it must be this, which is a sentiment that seems to be shared by us all. Steve Hewitt - I've definitely done this in the past whilst working in FE! Currently working at a university who are slightly apprehensive about now being under the remit of Ofsted, so I don't know quite to what extent they'll be prepared to engage in a tussle haha, but I'll absolutely try to suggest this. Seems like we're all of the same opinion though; there's no rule stating that we must retain a copy. The EPAO doesn't even have to send us one.
Martin West - As always, thanks for your input. Unfortunately I wasn't personally present otherwise I'd have definitely asked which funding rule they were referring to that stipulates we must keep ...