DLock 10

Hi, a couple of thoughts although they may not help that much as you seem to be on the right lines:

1. Have you added new TNP 3/4 records for the new employer (not mentioned above)effective from the change date?
2. When was the change of employer first added to the system and uploaded to ESFA? Just wondering if it wasn't done until R04 and that's what triggered the funding stop. Otherwise it does seem odd that you were paid for 3 months and then it stopped. 

Thanks Timmo.

1. - Yes - TNP 3 and TNP 4 are in place with start date of 10th July 2023 (date of new employer record).

2. - Hmm - the new employer was added on 5th October 2023 (I appreciate we should have known about this change of employer earlier), so in plenty of time for the R04.

So that (point 2) would certainly suggest it is the creation of the new employer record that has done something.....but what has it done and how do we fix it?! 

Thanks

Hi Rachel. I'm trying to recall now what effect a change of employer (and thus new TNP) should have in the apps monthly report - does it add a new set of rows for the learner from the change date, so there would be two sets of rows for the same learner, same aims but with different TNP and funding?

If so you might see (exact periods depending on when the new TNP was first submitted and funding created):

1. The original funding lines under the original  employer TNP1/2 stopped with payments recovered in R03 or 04 in one record set (because it should never really have existed in 23/24)
2. A new set of records under the new employer TNP3/4, with arrears of funding for R01&02 totalled in R03 (or R04) and then continuing as it should do thereafter. Might need a manual adjustment to sort out the July R12 amount, as it's too late to correct that ILR.

I haven't seen one of these for quite a while though so would be good if someone who has could confirm how they appear now.

Not sure if you have resolved this now but also worth considering if you have updated the DAS cohort in the ILR record so its looking at the riht one and are using the correct employer ID.

Timmo the APPS Monthly Payment Report has only one line of data - and as both employers have the EDRS Number 9999999999 I cannot tell which it relates to. I did not put an end date against the TNP 1 and 2 - I thought the start date of TNP 3 an TNP 4 would indicate the previous price episode had ended. Should I have entered an end date against TNP1 and TNP2?

Louise - I used the Change of Employer function and it looks OK to me. The original employer is ended in July 2023 and the new employer starts in July 2023. Is this what you meant?

thank you

Because of the short period of unemployment, you might need a new ACT entry wef 10/7/23 to match the TNP 3&4 entries of the same date. As to why you received funding for July, August and September, that's a mystery, unless the records in DAS were not updated until October, in which case the records prior to October continued to match your ILR and therefore allowed the claim for funding.  

OK - thanks, Paul, I will create a new ACT code starting g10/07/2023. The DAS did not get updated until October - we had to wait for the DAS team to stop the record as the original employer would not do it.

Hi Rachel, sorry been away for a short while. The TNP records on ILR don't have an end date just an effective date as per https://guidance.submit-learner-data.service.gov.uk/23-24/ilr/entity/AppFinRecord.

My understanding is that the employer info in the ILR isn't really used for DAS funding purposes. The employer ID stopped being used a while back (just shown on reports for identification if still submitted - 999999999 is the 'dummy' code where no historic code existed) and the agreement ID was taken out of the ILR file. So they connect the two systems through the various learner record details to identify the relevant DAS employer records to draw funding from.

I didn't think a new ACT record was needed unless that value was changed when the employer changed - that is now very rare, if at all, as almost all learners are ACT1 (as per this psm page) but possibly it will kick it into life.

Otherwise, always worth checking again to make sure that the relevant learner details match between ILR and DAS and that the new employer record is active, although I suspect you've already done that...

Thanks everyone - I finally got a response from the ESFA.....I had used July 2023  as the 'effective from' dates for the TNP 3 and TNP4. As these were created after the R14, of course they were not being picked up. I have been advised to create new TNP 3 and TNP 4 records with effective from dates of 01/08/2023.

Needless to say, training is being provided on the importance of making sure all employer changes are notified to the admin team without delay.....!

@... Thanks for the update, that's really useful to know.

Also, just to say, you're not alone with late notification of employer changes. I was told two weeks ago about one that happened in May *face palm emoji*. I also need to do some more training with the assessors.

Thanks Ruth - good to know we are not alone!!

Thanks @..., useful information although I'm still not sure why the original dates you submitted caused a problem so long as they matched between ILR and DAS. Presumably you had a lot of other carryover records with TNP dates prior to August. Cross-year updates often cause problems though, hope it's resolved for your R06.